michaelOH

Anybody use additives if so what kind? I know it will gunk up my engine but my crack is so big when I shut the jeep off you hear a continuous flow of water/antifreeze leaking into the pan, and I just need this engine to last another 2 months( you should see the steam that comes out the back! Lol)

squirrelnw

its toast. you just dont know it yet... those bearings are gone, kaput, its up to you now to decide if and when it goes while your driving is it worth your safety to keep driving it. gettin left on the freeway is no fun, especially if you dont make it to the slow side

Kalali

What you hear is the oil running down back to the pan. No way it is coolant.
Just drive it until it begins to get real noisy banging metal...

salad

Steam as in exhaust since its kinda winter? When you shut off the engine the noise you hear is oil. It's so hot it sounds like water. Otherwise what you're describing would implay that your Jeep consumes several gallons of coolant per day and it is overflowing from the dipstick after running for one minute...

bryweb

Have you checked your oil? Is it overfilled or Milky White?
If not you are not leaking AntiFreeze into your Pan.

Have you checked your coolant levels?, are you using a coolant constantly?
If not you don't have a head cracked.

And sealants almost never work..... I READ a couple times people saying they had success.... but it would have to be an extremely minor crack and the stuff noted as working is really expensive.

PERSONALLY I have had bad luck changing heads only as usually the antifreeze starts eating the cam, rod, and crank bearings and shortly after the head is fixed the motor has no oil pressure (cam bearings) or a knock (Crank and Rod Bearings). I have been installing a Junkyard motor (96 and earlier) with a Rugged Ridge header for the larger exhaust ports and custom coil mounts.

Good Luck,

Bryan

michaelOH

After the first 4 mile drive right after changing the oil the level went up a good 4-5 inches

bryweb

And the oil is Milky White?

Are you running Synthetic? (I am not sure if Synthetic will go milky white)

Are you sure the motor is not sledged up and you over filled the oil and it took it that long to hit the pan? Or many times the dip stick looks over filled but its just from adding oil and the splash up on the dipstick.

When you drained the oil for the oil change did you see a ton of antifreeze in it?

If it is indeed cracked, then you need a new head.... I would never buy a junkyard head or one that is new and not have a reinforced design.

If it is leaking that bad you have a 1 in 10 billion of a chance you are going to seal it with chemicals.... and you are gambling as well on how long the bearings will last if they have been that washed out with antifreeze... the chemicals in antifreeze destroy the soft metal in bearings!!!! Trust me I know.... I have dealt with 4 cracked heads in the last 2 years (purchasing dead jeeps)

PS: I am surprised if you are leaking that bad you have not hydrolocked the motor and blew a piston apart, this is what I happened on my last motor.

JohnEP

Brian (or Anyone who has replaced 4.0 heads):

The motors you had bad luck with changing heads only... Did they sound good, and hold 20psi oil pressure at hot idle BEFORE you changed the head, and yet then die AFTER you changed the head? How quick did they die after you changed the head?
I drove about 800 miles, and put about 5 gal of coolant through my 4.0 2000 cracked head over a 6-month period (I don't use it much, but I like it when I need it). My engine still sounds great, and holds 20psi at hot idle after recent oil change. Rather than replace the engine, I am planning a rebuilt TUPY "head only" option. PLEASE LET ME KNOW.

JohnEP

bryweb

I always purchased mine with Blown Heads already, and twice I changed heads only to have poor oil pressure...... like 2 lbs at Idle after a 20 minute drive. So now I do complete motor swaps when I run in to them. Both were WJ's and I was able to pull the head again and replace the cam bearings while the engines were in the truck with everything in front of motor removed - grill, radiator, AC condenser, etc, both had great oil pressure once done, but I quickly sold them afterwards so I don't know how long they lasted.

NOTE: Just because the antifreeze is up to temp, does not mean the oil is, even though after 5-10 minutes the coolant gauge was at 210 and I still had oil pressure at idle, it was 10-15 minutes (about 15-20 miles all together) later that the oil got hot enough to lose pressure. The first one I tried a new "High Volume Oil Pump" and running 15W40 Rotella Oil.... and still had no luck until the cam bearings were replaced.

You are probably ok, but nothing sucks more than dumping hundreds into your jeep putting a new head on only to find out now you have to pull the motor and do cam bearings as well.... then you sit and wonder how long the crank and main bearings have left on them. I have stayed away from the Grand Cherokee WJ's since I ran into the first two I had (for the head and a number of other reasons - window regulators, vent in trans behind torque converter making it a big pain to add a higher vent for water crossings, stupid computer controlled fan, etc.) - I love the way they look... but to me they are Chrysler Grand Cherokees not JEEP, and I am not a Chrysler Fan in General. I have read conflicting stories on whether the older XJ motors will swap in - something about the accessories mounts on the motor sticking out a different distance.

In my 2000-2001 XJ's I prefer to put in a junkyard 99 or older motor with the better breathing and designed 0630 heads and run a Rugged Ridge Header ($240) to match the bigger exhaust ports - They are cheaper (last 2 were under $200 each for a 110K +/- 1996 long block no acc @ the local PicknPull on 1/2 off day).) so it generally pays for the header... BONUS. Then I just make some brackets (plus a ground strap suggested to be extra safe) for the coil pack. I have two now this way, one I am just finishing, and one with over 8000 miles on it... including towing a trailer 2000+ miles and being thrashed in the mud many times.

Bryan

JohnEP

1) Do you remember what the warm idle oil pressure was BEFORE you changed the head on either one?

2) Up to temp: I warmed it up for 15 min today, drove 6 miles, with acceleration tests to listen for knocking (none heard), then idled for 10 min. Oil pressure settled at 19 psi (dash gauge) at idle. At 2000 rpm, oil pressure is over 40. That is with 5w-30 (and 1 cup of kerosene added to oil). That is thin oil. On the other hand, it IS winter here in Michigan...

JohnEP

bryweb

Short Answer, I never drove the vehicles for anything more than in the driveway before swapping heads, I knew they had bad heads when I bought them.

I have been where you are many times, hoping that if I ask the question enough the "Right" answer will come my way to put me at peace with my automotive issues.

Sorry but I have usually bad luck with engines after they are infected with antifreeze, unless it was very minimal for a very short period of time.

Yes you can throw a head on it, change the oil a few times quickly after running again to wash the antifreeze out, and hope for the best. If you are wrong you just blew a lot of money on labor and parts that will need to be repurchase (gaskets, etc)

What to do really depends on your long term goal with the Jeep, your finances/budget, and your patience. If you just swap the head I am guessing you have a 50/50 chance of not spinning a bearing (that seems to be my luck over the years).

If I had the budget.... I would buy a new crate motor or a quality rebuilt motor with a warranty, since I am usually broke I throw in junkyard motors in with decent success rate (I have more time than money and a garage full of tools), but then again I don't keep my vehicles very long either.... 2-3 years at the most.

PS: I researched Google for a while looking for proof of Antifreeze eats the bearings, but could not find any research, just "Forum Experts" which tend to just repeat what they heard elsewhere. But I did read about a lot of people losing a bearing after dealing with antifreeze in the oil.

Bryan

Jumpalot

^^^^But if you bought them with bad heads already, did you have any idea how long they were run with the bad head?? I'm asking because I was checking mine everyday and one day it was fine and the next it had the milky oil after about 50 miles. I'm taking the chance to just replace the head.

bryweb

Change the head and let me know in 6 months how it went.....

Here is the problem, you change the head and it never has a problem we probably will never hear about it again.

But if you change it and do have a problem, we will hear it about it....

And for that fact my stats are probably biased.

The longer that polluted oil sits on your bearings, the less of a chance, if you don't flush the engine a few times with fresh oil.... the less of a chance, if you have a ton of miles again less of a chance. So many variables.

I hope it works out for you.... and yes I tend to be more on the negative side on things as that is how my personal luck runs.

Bryan

JohnEP

Excellent summary Bryan. I agree: we hear more from the people who were "screwed" by their head-only job, so the data available is probably unbalanced.

As for Jumpalot: With only 50 miles on your milky head, your lube has probably not yet failed your shaft's main bearing (heh heh). I also plan on getting local TUPY "head job". I found a rebuilt one for $350. I'll report back on how it goes.

JohnEP

JohnEP

Well, looks like I'll be replacing the head myself, with help from my brother... Should I replace the lifters while I'm in there? They are only $4 each. Engine sounds great as it is though... Any easy way to check them while I have it apart? How do you get them out of that deep hole?

Thanks,
JohnEP