zim

Well I got the new switch installed and adjusted with the key movement. Trouble is, same as before, no blower, wipers, fuel pump, or radio, and of course no start. Crap!!! New ideas as to what I might look for are wanted.
Thanks to all. zim

DFlintstone

Bump.

There are about five wires fanning off a big stud on your start relay. Rarely one of those "fuseable links" frys. You might just take a look that they are OK. (and well connected to the relay/pos connection)

Some more reading for you until someone else comes along. Here is something to do at any time. Being triple sure here is highly recommended.> Battery gasses have a nasty habit of helping a thin, hard crust form on the bat post's and clamps. They can look pretty good, but that micro-thin layer is a surprisingly good insulator. SHINNY! Lead is what you want. I use a pocket knife, (gently), for the insides of the clamps. For the posts I might use one of those post cleaner wire brushes, but still scrape it with a blade. If you have a condition where you have power, (dash lights ect.), then when you hit it power goes out altogether, that's a common result of a layer of oxidization there. Btw, a half *** connection could be expected to get hot during cranking, or while it's trying. Cleaning those is something to do now and then anyway, so if you are having starting problems, you might want to make sure you have bare lead on lead. Might save you some grief!

zim

DFlintstone, you are so right about bad connection at the battery posts being an often over looked cause for trouble. However in this case, I too am one of those who takes loose and scrapes clean, really clean both posts, and cable clamps at the first hint of an electrical problem. On to those fuseable links. I was eyeballing them really hard right before I quit this evening. The lines coming off the relay are tight and clean but I have not decided how to test downstream of them just yet. I hate to just start poking holes in every wire looking for the dead one but that may well be the route I need to take. Any ideas? Thank you.

DFlintstone

I need to take off for a while. In my signature I think you can find links to wiring diagrams. Or Cruiser or someone might chime in. I'm about sure the power the switch uses for the solenoid is not fused, it comes from one of those fuseable links. Also on my sig is the start relay. Right there at the relay you can both jump/start your Jeep, (by juicing the ign term), and also check for power from the Ign while over on start. The bottom right black ground needs to be grounded by the NSS for the relay to kick.

zim

Thank you once again. I am studying up on these links for wiring. I will be on this again in the morning and first thing I plan on doing is trying a jump at the relay. This jeep will be getting a remote starter button installed asap. I live in a rather remote wilderness area and it is the daily driver for my boys. Can't have this kinda thing happen certain days.

OK this morning I have been trying to jump it at the relay. Results areas follows, power to fuel pump terminal-causes pump to come on. Power to ignition terminal, nothing. power to starter solinoid terminal, nothing. If I put power to the wire going to starter solenoid, engine turns over but does not fire. I'm starting to think that the problem is the relay itself.
None of the fuseable links show any sign of heat/damage. Having never seen on go bad, what am I looking for on them. I assume meltdown at the fat part of the link.

zim

Is there any reason to not think the problem could be the NSS ? Going out to check into it now, will take apart and clean contact areas.

DFlintstone

See above. I might just try grounding that first, before going after the NSS. That wouldn't effect the other stuff you mention like the wipers or fuel pump. (Btw, the pump just comes on a couple secs after the key is turned on)

zim

Today's report. Studied up on DFlnt's recomended reading and that lead to more study.
Tested NSS with ohm meter, checked out perfect.
Tried jumping on the above pictured relay, hot to starter solenoid caused engine turn over but no fire. Hot to fuel pump causes pump to run. Hot to ignition causes engine to turn over but no fire.
All jumping was done with key in start position.

I am beginning to suspect the starter relay is the problem?

And for DFlintstone I have a question. Above in red you say the pictured ground terminal needs to be grounded by the NSS for the relay to work.
Not meaning to sound any more ignorant than I already do, but what do you mean by that? How do I make sure that the NSS is grounding this ground terminal?
Thank you for bearing with me. zim

DFlintstone

Two thoughts. Simply put the ohmmeter between it and ground and see that it's being grounded by the NSS when park or neutral are selected. Guess you did that.

Or, if the relay activates when you ground that terminal, but not through the NSS that would point to the NSS not working.

You said you put hot to the IGN terminal and it cranked. I'd forget the relay and the NSS, and sort out why turning the key to start doesn't do that, "put hot to the ign terminal" (it should!)

zim

DFlintstone, thank you for your continuing support here. Tomorrows plan will be as you say to find out why the key won't make it hot at the relay. Unless someone chimes in and tells me differently, I will drop the column and start testing every wire that comes to the ignition switch. I suppose I will mainly be looking for hots and checking connections while trying to trace wire backwards from switch to relay

zim

Went out today with a clear mind and DFlintsone's advise to find out why the ignition switch is not responding to the key.
Started by going to the fuse panel on floorboard. Began by pulling fuses of things not working when key is turned to on or alt. (I am sure I have done this 5 or 6 times now)
While doing this I decide to check and see what the test lite says about the fuse slots in these offending areas. IE, blower, radio, and one marked "ign" which I can only assume means . No power to any of these fuse slots.
All of the other fuse slots that have working lights etc are hot in the slot when you take the fuse out. So now, I am fairly sure that I am getting no power from the relay to the fuse panel on these circuits. Or am I?
This caused me to take the ignition wire off the relay and run a hot jump to it, then try the key switch. It caused the gauges to move and a different buzzer to sound below dash, but no engine response.
Comments please, zim

DFlintstone

I'm heading off to the fight. I'm about positive the power for the start circuit, (on our renix) is not dependent on a fuse.

I'm just not positive about the ign power to activate the relay right now.

Cheddarnut

I have battled the NSS, rebuilt it and probably will rebuild again or swap soon. If the NSS is the culprit, you will usually be able to shift down into neutral and the jeep will start. Sometimes it takes turning the key to start and moving the shifter (which would be in neutral) back and forth a bit. Try that and see what happens. You can try this one in the dark.lol.

DFlintstone

This looks like it it's the green fusible link, (the links happen to connect to bat pos. on the start relay), which goes to red before powering the ign switch. No fuses, the switch just shoots that to the relay on "start", then the relay will shoot power out a dark green to the solenoid if it's black is being grounded, (preferably by the NSS)

I think checking for power (always there) at the red wire to the switch might make sense.

Here I found another diagram> http://jeep.zerok.ru/index.php?page=196 (ctrl plus +, zooms in.) (this one here is under "Tom's" in my sig)

I'm pretty sure it's a Dark Green, out of the switch to activate the relay to start. Hope this helps!

zim

Cheddarnut, the NSS has passed all kinds of testing and seems to be good to go. I have done the wiggle the shifter test many times this week to no avail. Thank you though.
DFlintstone, this afternoon I will take your newest information and begin there for the day.
In the mean time if anyone knows a good way of checking fuseable links please chime in.
Thanks to all in on this.
This is my 5th Cherokee, and I have replaced trannys, engine swaps, lift kits, radiators, steering columns, fuel tanks, brakes, seats, and just about any other problem that can come along with XJ ownership, and never ever have I been so totally dead in the water.