CoffeeCommando

I just went through a starter last week, and the new one just wiped out. Recently the Jeep has been sounding like it's firing when it's not supposed to (maybe on the exhaust stroke since that's when a waste spark system wastes its spark) during start up. It's not consistent, but once every 3 or 4 starts it does it, and I just wiped out a new starter I put in last week.

Any clues what could cause this? The inside of the started has broken so instead of spinning the gear to turn the flywheel, the inside of the starter is just spinning freely.

The Jeep runs fine while driving. The only codes I have are for the IAT (I did a bypass mod on it so it's never plugged in), one of the rear cat O2's (I ran too long of a line for it), and just recently I am getting a high sensor input for the TPS which had some damaged wires I soldered several months back. There are no other codes.

tech

Check your cam sensor it could be the problem , that and crank sensor , they work together so if one has a problem you can have a starting problem .

CoffeeCommando

The crank sensor is a good sensor (I tested it before I bought it) from February. I actually replaced the cam sync sensor in March when I was having misfires and it immediately cleared it up, however there were multiple factors affecting the misfire (leaky brake booster, old plugs, post-cat O2's not plugged in and too much heat under the hood -all of which I fixed and haven't had misfires since).

As for the cam sensor... I guess I'll have to get a new starter and start moving it around a bit? I did that with the last one trying to get a sense of the limits of what's too far but I could move it quite a bit before anything changed with the ignition, like a quarter turn. I watched the ignition timing on my Actron scanner and it barely changed a few degrees.

It hasn't moved since I last installed it months ago and it was new. Although it is possible for those sensors to potentially cause that problem, I don't think that is the case. Every time I've had a CPS issue it never simulates far-too-advanced timing working against the starter, it just turns over forever without starting.

BlackXJay

Did they bench test the starter before you installed it? I went through 3 starters. First 2 were reman starters that would grind like crazy every couple of starts. When I took the starters in to get them replaced both had a problem with the bendix gear not retracting fully. I paid the difference to buy a brand new one and it's been about 2 years without a problem.

CoffeeCommando

After some investigations... I think I know what it is. My new hydrogen cell is producing H2 instead of HHO, and H2 combusts a lot easier. I was getting double gas mileage, but when starting it the remaining H2 lingering in the manifold/cylinders was fighting the BTDC ignition.

I'll have to vent the H2 to the intake so it doesn't get sucked in at idle. I'll configure a normal HHO cell for the vacuum port which never gave me any issues.

Science is hard.

PatHenry

CoffeeCommando

Well well well, it looks like the hydrogen isn't my only issue. I got the new starter in and on a cold start it was no problem.

I shut it off when it was partially warm and thought I heard it start to fight back again but it started.

After reaching full temperature it's back to fighting the starter. It's the gas. I've been using 89 with MMO for a few months, but I decided to go without the MMO (previously I ran 93 octane). I've been hearing a faint noise from the engine but not sure what it was. I suspect that might be a subtle sound of pinging, but there's so much noise with the hood open it's hard to tell.

I've noticed that when I start it in the past the ignition timing is +15-20 degrees and reduced to 1 or 2 when hot. If it uses +15-20 when trying to start up after it's already heated up, that would be my problem.

Engineering is hard.

CoffeeCommando

Oh, that reminds me to ask, which way does the belt drive system turn as you're looking at it from the front of the engine? I need to figure out which way to turn my cam sync sensor to give it some extra retard for insurance in starting conditions.

I thought it was to the right, but when I looked at the shape of the radiator fan it didn't seem like that's the way it should spin to pull in air.

PatHenry

Crank spins clockwise from the front so the fan clutch spins counter-clockwise.

PatHenry

2000 XJ has the spring loaded tensioner and the fan clutch directly on the water-pump like the 00 TJ, right?

CoffeeCommando

No and no. There is a long bolt to tighten the pulley like the rest of the Cherokees and the water pump has a removable pulley only. The fan mounts to a pulley that is part of the AC mounting bracket.

The fan has always spun the same direction as the belt. I just don't remember which way that was.


EDIT: Now that I'm missing some flywheel teeth am I going to start having more ignition issues?

POST EDIT, EDIT: No, I shouldn't. The flywheel has a flat ring that extends outboard into the transmission with square gaps in it. The CPS is looking for those air gaps, not gaps between flywheel teeth. I still wonder how it knows which cylinder is number 1 when there are 3 sets of 4 air gaps for a total of 12...

CoffeeCommando

It's still not starting easily. It sounds like it might be firing one cylinder incorrectly. I decided to look at the crank sensor since it's magnetic and I've had some flywheel damage. There was a small amount of debris on it. I've been running a magnet inside the transmission bell housing while turning the flywheel via the crank. There were some scuff marks on the bottom and some of the corner edges of it, not sure if that could have damaged it internally.

I'm going to try putting the older crank sensor it had in there originally back in.

I tried moving the cam sensor back from the 9'clock to 10'clock position as well.

CoffeeCommando

I just pulled the timing cover and got the #1 TDC on compression stroke, and the cam shaft mark is a full 180 degrees EDIT: It's a cloyes dual roller after market setup and that must be how they're marked, to be 180 off. I consistently get compression with it 180 off and that's how Golen shows it being lined up in their video, although he has the sync sensor off 180.

I'm at a loss for why it's not starting up. I did get it to start once and it reved up then came back down to idle, idled too low and cut off. I have had PTSD about starting it and causing damage elsewhere so I only tried to start it once after that and it always sounds like it's stopping dead. Could 4 missing teeth on the flywheel cause that to happen? It happens so often that it doesn't seem like 4 out of 164 teeth would make it lock up 9 out of 10 times.

I'm out of ideas. This is my only way to get around and work to pay bills so I need this thing back on the road asap. It's bad enough I'm making less than $600 a month and half that goes to bills.

BlueRidgeMark

You missed 7th grade chemistry class? There is no such thing as "HHO". That is a con man's term, invented to fool people into buying unless junk. When you use electricity to break down water, you get very ordinary hydrogen and very ordinary oxygen mixed together, not some new mysterious magical substance called HHO.

Hydrogen mixed 2:1 with oxygen is about as combustible as it gets in nature. I can't think of anything more combustible. No, H2 does NOT combust more easily than a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen. H2 in ordinary air will react LESS rapidly than a 2:1 mixture of hydrogen and pure oxygen.

Breaking down water into hydrogen and oxygen requires energy. That energy is, in theory, exactly EQUAL to the amount of energy that is obtained by combining the hydrogen and oxygen. Not one bit more, and not one bit less. The energy you GET from the hydrogen is the energy you USED to make it, MINUS whatever losses exist in the system. (And there are ALWAYS losses.) You cannot use a gas engine's alternator to make fuel for your engine and get out more energy. You get LESS energy out of the project.

No, you don't get free energy because "the alternator is turning already". If you put more load on an alternator, whether it's off road lights, big amplifier, a winch, or a hydrogen generator, you put more load on the engine which burns more fuel to provide the energy needed to turn the alternator against the load.

There is no free lunch.

CoffeeCommando

Oh no, you mean me getting double my gas mileage is just an odd coincidence? Thank you for schooling me. I should have went to college and got schooled by outdated books on what REALLY works. Thanks for educating me. I'll just throw my working contraption that doesn't work in the garbage.