88 XJ Renix Idles Fine Bogs down when throttle applied
#17
CF Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,489
Likes: 19
From: Nor-Cal Coast
Year: 90,84
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0,2.5
I'd check the MAP and it's tube. It senses the drop in manifold vacuum when you open the throttle and tells the ECU to dump more fuel when the vacuum drops.
There is a test here. I assume he is "back-probing", (checking it with a pin or paperclip or something stuck in there to connect the meter while it's plugged in. http://www.lunghd.com/Tech_Articles/...iagnostics.htm
There is another test, watching the "sweep" on B, with an analogue gauge. (or I suppose a spendy digital)
Also the tube is critical, (and brittle). Needs to be flawless.
There is a test here. I assume he is "back-probing", (checking it with a pin or paperclip or something stuck in there to connect the meter while it's plugged in. http://www.lunghd.com/Tech_Articles/...iagnostics.htm
There is another test, watching the "sweep" on B, with an analogue gauge. (or I suppose a spendy digital)
Also the tube is critical, (and brittle). Needs to be flawless.
Last edited by DFlintstone; 01-01-2015 at 03:11 PM.
#18
CF Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,489
Likes: 19
From: Nor-Cal Coast
Year: 90,84
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0,2.5
Btw, when mine was doing something similar it turned to out to be one of the wires to the lower sensors, grounding. My harness from the injector "harness" to down there was mis-routed and chafed/grounded on the edge of the heat shield. It would go like heck if I floored it. (the ECU will ignore a bunch of sensors past 80% throttle)
#19
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 19
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From: Sarasota
Year: 1988
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
#20
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 19
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From: Sarasota
Year: 1988
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Cruiser - Yes, it initially ran well. This started after the new engine install.
DFlinstone - I will try the test this morning on the MAP. I did look for a chafed wire, as I saw your post on your issue before. I could not find any although I may not be looking at the right spot. If I floor the throttle (100% throttle), it bogs even more.
DFlinstone - I will try the test this morning on the MAP. I did look for a chafed wire, as I saw your post on your issue before. I could not find any although I may not be looking at the right spot. If I floor the throttle (100% throttle), it bogs even more.
#21
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 19
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From: Sarasota
Year: 1988
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Just tested the MAP. A puts in 5.09v and B puts out 4.90v. Don't have a vacuum guage, but will try to get one today to test the vacuum voltage as per the video on the site.
#22
Senior Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 925
Likes: 5
From: Fort Erie, CANADA
Year: 1987
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Make sure the tubing from the MAP to Throttle body is in good shape. I would clean the throttle body too and adjust TPS to make sure everything is good.
#23
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Joined: Dec 2014
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From: Sarasota
Year: 1988
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Okay,
Pulled the throttle body and cleaned it. Re-installed, adjusted TPS (4.89 to .83).
Still doing the same.
The tube is in good shape, fits snuggly into the bottom entry on the throttle body.
Pulled the throttle body and cleaned it. Re-installed, adjusted TPS (4.89 to .83).
Still doing the same.
The tube is in good shape, fits snuggly into the bottom entry on the throttle body.
#24
CF Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,489
Likes: 19
From: Nor-Cal Coast
Year: 90,84
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0,2.5
I'd think the fuel lines would have been a problem with the other engine...Idk of course.
What Cruiser was getting at about the secondary spark, (I think), is that the voltage needed to jump the gap goes up under higher compression. If it's just barely making it, it may take another path (if it has one), when the compression goes up. Now and then you can catch spark going to ground somewhere else by watching it in the dark. Myself, I might try the old cap/rotor/wires , if I still had them.
You do know the books and diagrams are wrong, #1 is at 5:00 as viewed from the side, 153624 clockwise.
One way to access the lower sensors/wires is to support the frame so the axle hangs, and go at it from the front. Last year I tried to duplicate the "condition", by grounding sensor wires, to see which one it was. It wouldn't do it for me cold and I gave up. For sure though, when I re-routed and taped the bare wire, that fixed it.
Since you just now bolted it up, it would be easy enough to loosen the pipe to header bolts so exhaust can leak and try it, on the long-shot that when your other engine blew it somehow clogged up the exhaust.
Last edited by DFlintstone; 01-03-2015 at 02:54 PM.
#25
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Newbie
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 19
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From: Sarasota
Year: 1988
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
DFlinstone:
The MAP tests good, voltage and vacuum.
I agree with the fuel lines, but changed them out to new (I have the tubing already)
I am starting to think that Cruiser is on target (After reading all other posts and the pink link, why wouldn't he!!!). When I pull the wire off of 2 on the Dizzy cap and give throttle, the sparks are erratic. 3,4 and 5 are also erratic. 1 and 6 are spot on. What causes this to happen?
Yes, I know the diagram is wrong. I have been at this for two months already reading others posts to see if I can solve the problem. Ended up posting myself to see if I can get to the bottom of this with you all's help.
I looked last night in the dark to see if I saw a spark anywhere, and couldn't see none.
I really appreciate the help from all, if you can think of anything, please let me know. Really want to drive this thing!!!!!
The MAP tests good, voltage and vacuum.
I agree with the fuel lines, but changed them out to new (I have the tubing already)
I am starting to think that Cruiser is on target (After reading all other posts and the pink link, why wouldn't he!!!). When I pull the wire off of 2 on the Dizzy cap and give throttle, the sparks are erratic. 3,4 and 5 are also erratic. 1 and 6 are spot on. What causes this to happen?
Yes, I know the diagram is wrong. I have been at this for two months already reading others posts to see if I can solve the problem. Ended up posting myself to see if I can get to the bottom of this with you all's help.
I looked last night in the dark to see if I saw a spark anywhere, and couldn't see none.
I really appreciate the help from all, if you can think of anything, please let me know. Really want to drive this thing!!!!!
#26
CF Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,489
Likes: 19
From: Nor-Cal Coast
Year: 90,84
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0,2.5
There in post #24 was about all I can think of. It only takes a second to check a CPS......One of those things that can be ruled out in the time it takes to tie your shoes!
#27
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 19
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From: Sarasota
Year: 1988
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Hello everyone,
Finally got it!!!! I figured I would post what fixed it so that others may use the solution.
After checking pretty much everything again with a friend who knows more (Matt), and going thru Cruiser's pink list, the problem was my CPS. Matt figured out that at idle, the cps was reading fine sending the correct info to the ECU. When applying throttle, the flexplate flexed enough to throw the reading off (the cps was not reading the squares).
I added two washers that offset the cps about 1/16", said a prayer, and started the XJ. Idle was perfect and when I applied throttle, even better!!!!!
Thanks everyone for your input. I appreciate the time you took to help me out.
Finally got it!!!! I figured I would post what fixed it so that others may use the solution.
After checking pretty much everything again with a friend who knows more (Matt), and going thru Cruiser's pink list, the problem was my CPS. Matt figured out that at idle, the cps was reading fine sending the correct info to the ECU. When applying throttle, the flexplate flexed enough to throw the reading off (the cps was not reading the squares).
I added two washers that offset the cps about 1/16", said a prayer, and started the XJ. Idle was perfect and when I applied throttle, even better!!!!!
Thanks everyone for your input. I appreciate the time you took to help me out.
#28
::CF Moderator::
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 43,971
Likes: 1,565
From: Prescott, Az
Year: 1990
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0
Hello everyone,
Finally got it!!!! I figured I would post what fixed it so that others may use the solution.
After checking pretty much everything again with a friend who knows more (Matt), and going thru Cruiser's pink list, the problem was my CPS. Matt figured out that at idle, the cps was reading fine sending the correct info to the ECU. When applying throttle, the flexplate flexed enough to throw the reading off (the cps was not reading the squares).
I added two washers that offset the cps about 1/16", said a prayer, and started the XJ. Idle was perfect and when I applied throttle, even better!!!!!
Thanks everyone for your input. I appreciate the time you took to help me out.
Finally got it!!!! I figured I would post what fixed it so that others may use the solution.
After checking pretty much everything again with a friend who knows more (Matt), and going thru Cruiser's pink list, the problem was my CPS. Matt figured out that at idle, the cps was reading fine sending the correct info to the ECU. When applying throttle, the flexplate flexed enough to throw the reading off (the cps was not reading the squares).
I added two washers that offset the cps about 1/16", said a prayer, and started the XJ. Idle was perfect and when I applied throttle, even better!!!!!
Thanks everyone for your input. I appreciate the time you took to help me out.
I guess it's a good idea to slot the upper hole then? Factory did that on the CPSs provided in the "bypass kit".
#29
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: Sarasota
Year: 1988
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Yeah, I slotted the upper hole, then shifted the cps to the top of the housing and added the spacers. Its running like a charm for the last 5 days. Just in time also, as the wife took her extra key to the grand cherokee away from me!!!!!! LOL
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