Northwoods Snowman

To each his own. I'm just referring to the rare case like where you have to hit the brakes and swirve to change lanes to avoid a collision and the roads are not dry. With out the ABS slamming on the brakes and trying to change lanes is an excellent way to start spinning out and pile drive what ever is directly in front of you anyway. With the ABS, you don't lock up and can at least maintain enough control to change lanes. I would agree that most of the time ABS doesn't help, but it's those rare cases where it CAN be invaluable.

I was in the same boat you are in. I was confident I knew how I would react in any panic situation (I have had a number of emergency stops before) until I totaled my Subaru. That was a BIG eye opener. While in the case of my accident the ABS didn't make any difference, I can easily think of similar situations where it would during the winter. I'm speaking from experience because I've lived most of my life in areas that get 12 feet of snow or more on average during the winter. I've spent a LOT of time driving on icy roads. Milwaukee has crazy drivers, but the roads stay clean most of the winter, at least they did the winter I lived down there. Having good traction makes a HUGE difference.

I don't know what you've been through specifically, but in general it's one thing to know how you react when you have 2 seconds to make a decision in an emergency, it's a whole other story when you have less than a second. I guess for me the real advantage to ABS would be when you have to stop in a hurry, and you have to change direction at the same time when the road is in less than ideal condition.

To summarize, ABS has it's place in climates where you have to drive on snow and ice a lot. If you live down south where you don't have to drive on ice, the ABS doesn't have nearly the value, if any. Personally, I don't really like it, because 99% of the time I can do better with out it, but I don't hate it enough to get rid of it for that other 1% where it may save my vehicle, my life, or the life of someone in my vehicle. Just make sure you cover all your bases before ripping it out.

In all honesty though, if people drove in a safe manner like they should with approprate following distances, lower speed, paying attention etc. you shouldn't need to hit your brakes hard enough to lock them up and even warrant this discussion about the need for ABS. Too bad no body does. I alwasy find it funny when you see people in the ditch on the expressway in the winter or on the side of the road. They managed to spin out and crash and they most likely weren't even in an emergency stopping situation. They were just driving way too fast for conditions and made some small quick move that spun them out, probably just turning the wheel too quick.

Gee oh Dee

I guess I've never followed close enough to warrant a less-than-a-second stop.

If I see cars/trucks/whatever I move away and give them more distance. I mean, they are big enough, its not like they hide behind the snowflakes.

I know its difficult to stop a vehicle on snow or ice, so I give extra space to everyone.

I don't see how this is difficult?

Northwoods Snowman

EXACTLY!

The less than a second thing would be like when somene with bald summer tires tries to stop at a stop sign too late and they slide right out in front of you. I've been pretty close to this happening, NOT fun.

Northwoods Snowman

On a side note, the most useful thing I've found for the ABS is testing how slick the road is. I haven't needed it (thank God) to keep from crashing, but in the winter I will often do a quick press of the brakes to see how quick the ABS turns on. That gives me a VERY good idea of how slick the road is, how fast I can drive and how far back I need to stay behind people. Not as useful here in Oshkosh, but it does come in handy at times. I figure if I engage the ABS I'm either following someone too close, or I'm not starting to stop soon enough. I've seen it plenty of times where the road looks the same with a little snow on it and it can have decent traction, or be pure ice.

Gee oh Dee

Yep, had the same thing happen to me.

Only it was summer, broad daylight, and I was on a motorcycle and I DIDN'T have a stop sign.

I was then run over, drug for about 5 blocks, and then left there to die. Driver never stopped.

Never again will I trust any driver to stop at any sign, light, intersection, anything.

Snow or not, I'm always watching what other driver's are doing.

I know I'm a capable driver, I can drive in and through just about anything. But the others on the road don't.

I believe this is why I'll never be in any situation like you were.

I give myself time, and assume every other driver ISN'T gonna stop.

I've done fine avoiding those situations.

Northwoods Snowman

I'm sorry if you got the impression I was referring to you specifically, I'm just saying in general that things can come out of nowhere.

In my case, I was in a line of traffice slowing down to turn onto the on ramp for the express way. I was probably about three seconds behind the SUV in front of me (going about 25 mph at that time) when some idiot up front slammed on their brakes or something. I didn't realize anything was going on until the SUV in front of me was screeching their tires and then suddenly stopped as they hit the car in front of them. I think I was looking at my mirrors (hard to remember exactly) because the screeching is what caught my attention. By the time I was able to react and get on the brakes hard (was already on the brakes since I was slowing), I didn't have enough room to stop. Hit the back of the SUV and their rear bumper went over mine and pushed the radiator back to the front side of the engine. Air bags didn't even go off and it didn't do hardy anything to the other car, but it totaled my Legacy. It wasn't a case of someone failing to stop, it was that they stopped WAY faster than they would have or even could have otherwise. It's just amazing how fast things can go bad, especially when there is a large vehicle in front of you and you can't see what's going on in front of them. I could have and should have been back even further, but yeah, hind sight is always 20-20. Kind of like your bike wreck. I haven't had an accident on my bike, yet, but I've been even more cautious on that now than I was before the car accident (I ride like everyone is out to kill me).

Gee oh Dee

I ride like I'm out there to kill everyone!

dukie564

Gee oh Dee

https://www.cherokeeforum.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=832625


And, yes, I'm a cross posting *****.

Gee oh Dee

Take away the shotty and Harley, add a black helmet and sport bike...

And yep. Thats me!

leecarr

Bottom line. Learn how to drive, rely on your brain not the car, if you don't have one please stay off the road. Teach the driver how to drive ,not the car. I'll wave when I go by and see you in the ditch.

Northwoods Snowman

Yep, one of the cases were it's nice to not have it if you know what you're doing. To to be honest and objective though, it's probably hard to say it was all due to the ABS. It's amazing the difference tires can make!

A little while a go (couple weeks probably) the roads around here were really icy. There was a car at an intersection that was trying to pull out and go left. I was behind the lady and the spot were she was at was sloping just a little up hill to the main road. She could't get enough traction to pull out to save her life with her Stratus (or something similar). I realized what was going on when she didn't pull out, so in 2WD I backed up, and pulled around up beside her, made sure it was clear and then pulled out and went down the road to my work. I just have my all-terrain tires on with 45 psi in them and I had WAY more traction than that lady. Not saying it wasn't the dude's ABS, but it may not have beel all due to his ABS. After a winter in Houghton, MI with all season tires on my car, I'm definately an advocate for snow tires now, and have a real appreciation for different rubber compunds in tires! I was blown away at the performance different of winter tires vs. "all" season tires.

Sorry for the side story. Kind of funny though for that accident you saw, like a slow motion OH-CRAP! moment.

Gee oh Dee

I drove past quite slowly and noticed Blazzak's on the sedan in question. They looked to be near new.

I wouldn't say this, but the truck and car stopped right in front of my work, so I walked by on the way into the building.

2Evil4U

That is one weird link. It takes me to a new reply to that thread with your post quoted in the reply box.

Northwoods Snowman

LOL, fair enough.

I thought of something on the way home today, it's not really fair to compare different ABS systems to each other and then make generalized statements. One of my old roommates from school has a Chevy Colorado and a Toyota Matrix I want to say (the one that's like a shorter and thus much better looking Aztec) and if I'm remembering right it was the Toyota that actually had really good ABS. They wouldn't kick in super easily and they would actually stop you in snow. Then the Colorado just SUCKED. He also had a Buick LeSabre (spelling?) too. I might be getting mixed up which was which, but the ABS on the one worked great, the other was OK and the third was absolutely horrid. I'm pretty sure the Colorado was the horrid one.