extrashaky

It would be impossible not to get that warm, at least internally. At normal operating temperature, the oil running through it is hotter than the coolant, and the coolant is running at least 210°. I don't monitor my oil temp in the Cherokee, but I do in my other car, and it routinely reaches 225°. It stands to reason that if the engine oil is running well up over 200°, the inside of the oil filter will also be well up over 200°.

I had my stroker broken in on the engine dyno by Golen, and they use Driven assembly grease and break-in oil. I also use Driven hot rod oil in it as my regular fill. I have no qualms at all about using Driven products, because they seem to understand how to balance each oil for its specific application.

I wouldn't use hot rod oil or any high zinc oil or additives after break-in on a stock 4.0L, however. After break-in, there's absolutely no evidence a stock 4.0L needs more ZDDP than regular passenger car oil provides. Personally, for a stock 4.0L, I'd just use Mobil 1 10W30 synthetic as my regular fill.

CoffeeCommando

Instead of talking about evidence, how about your provision it. What is evidence of this anyway? Has anyone even defined it to know what it would be?

Metallic microns in the oil. Unless you do the oil analysis before and after with different oils to verify the levels, yourself, there will never be any evidence. There isn't some benevolent entity or organization out that is dedicated to doing these tests for all makes and models and publishing it out to the associated communities for verification. Wait for evidence, or make it happen. That's your only option. If you don't make it happen there won't be any. Now that you know that, you can stop feigning ignorance until you see evidence.

I don't need it, although I can take samples and have it sent to a lab for testing. Maybe I will one day. But not on my XJ, that's for sure.

Lobe wear is lobe wear. You don't have to have a stroker to have the benefits of increased zinc levels. My stroker is going to have completely OEM valve pressures, so by your standards I'd be perfectly safe treating it like a 4.0, but you and I both know that's a dumb idea. If I have OEM valve springs, and it's dumb do not use zinc, then why is it unnecessary for a 4.0 to supplement? If zinc is used to prevent wear, and the EPA drops the 1200 ppm to 800ppm, you're saying there isn't going to be a need to supplement? They dropped it 33% if you do the math. Is it a linear equation? Who knows. It could be logarithmic in the sense that there is a point where once you go below "these levels" (whatever those are, only the lab rats will know that answer) you go beyond the linear 33% loss and it sharply increases at an ever-increasing rate. Ever 1% reduction instead of being a 1% increase in wear becomes 2, 3 or maybe even 5 or more. None of us knows, but I'm not going to be the one to test that theory personally.

Stroker or no stroker, zinc is the only thing protecting flat tappet cam lobe interfaces from wearing out faster than it potentially could last. If you want a 4.0 that's going to have a legendary lifespan like they used to, going 200-400K miles, you're going to put ZDDP in. If you only want it to last 80-170~K before you start having obvious valve noise like the guy with the grand cherokee did on Eric the Car Guy's channel did, just keep using that off the shelf 800ppm oil at the parts store. They love to sell parts, and car dealers love to sell cars. Salesmen in the capitalist market love consumers that aren't educated enough to know what's really going on.

I have no interest in ever rebuilding an engine again. I want this one to break all the records and hit 600K if it can, and that's not going to happen on Pennzoil and Mobil 1.

extrashaky

Passenger car oil has zinc in it. There's no evidence the 4.0L needs more than it already gets.

robsjeep

Thanks for the replies guys.
Coffeecommando, I use Brad Penn in my Porsche 914 and I think it's a great oil. I may source some for the break-in, but I'm not sure yet. I did get Enginetech cam paste and ZDDP oil additive and that is probably all I need along with some good old dino-oil. Melling recommends Rotella T, Delo 400 or Delvac oil for break in. Walmart is on my list for lunchtime errands and I will see what they have. Looking back I used a semi synthetic when I put in the new lifters and that may have been part of the issue. Who knows.

The oil pan is coming off today and I'll do the rear main, clean anything I can and attempt to clean the lifter bores. Tomorrow I hope to get the cam in and head on. I'm not in a rush, however I need to get the 914 out of the rain and back into the garage, it's almost 100% rust free and I want to keep it that way!

As far as magnets I think it's a good idea. One friend puts a big magnet on his oil filter and I may look at going that route or a magnetic drain plug. Maybe I'll drill the end of my drain plug and epoxy a magnet in it... Anything is better than nothing.

I've been using Mopar oil filter and will continue to do so.

I'll keep the thread updated and hopefully someone else can learn from what I think my mistake was: and that was using new lifters on an old cam. I will never do that again.

CoffeeCommando

Avoid the oils with detergents, and those sound like diesel oils (detergent heavy). That will interfere with maximum longevity of the cam. My personal definition of premature is anything that happens under 200k.

The drain plugs are usually neodymium and they sit at the bottom of the pan. The oil gets to hot for them to work. And even if you get ceramics, they sit at the bottom of the oil pan. It's not an ideal setup. The oil will be constantly recirculating, metal and all, until it shuts off and has time to sift to the bottom. If you want to see engine wear happen they're good for identifying it, after the fact. Not preventing.

PatHenry

Guys - let's be civil. There's no need to start throwing around personal insults.

I can tell you that my Dad had a 94 XJ I6 that he bought new and on the day he said goodbye to it the engine had 400k on it and it ran as well as it did when it was new. He never replaced a single part on the engine and the only "imperfection" was that the RMS leaked a tiny bit.
He used Mobil 1 5w-30 and changed the oil on schedule. He never added zinc or anything else.
I feel like he could have gotten 600k out of that engine.
My 00 TJ has 305k on the I6, it ran perfectly and the only issues I had were the RMS leak and a valve spring broke once. I never had a problem with the 0331 head. I used Mobil 1 5-30 and 10-30.

What does that show - nothing more than that the I6 is a great engine.

If you want to use zinc - use zinc. If you don't want to, don't. The information, speculation and figures are there for folks to make educated decisions.
If you want to debate the merits, fine, but please let's not argue or insult each other. We are grown adults, let's be better than that.

Larry's XJ

[QUOTE=CoffeeCommando;3454423]New long block is going to be cheaper. You can put the other one away and build it on the side as a spare. That's the cheapest route and the best IMO.

WHy would you need a spare if they last up to 400K?? Wouldn't it developed internal rust over time ??

Larry's XJ

Thanks everyone 😣
More cornfused than ever about oils and such. I haven't been around much because Larry hasn't been driving the jeep much, plus I've been pretty sick.

I was under the impression that Rotella was the oil to end all. Oils.

BTW, I purposely spelled it 🌽 fused 😂

s346k

food for thought. our trucks at work run dino 10w30 castrol on 30k intervals. several of them now are over 800k with no hard part failures. a few are well over 1 million still on all of the stock internals etc. these are 11 liter truck motors that literally run 24/7 for 6 days a week.

Bugout4x4

They should be servicing those by the hours rather than by the miles.

s346k

while i agree with you from a maintenance standpoint, the point i’m making is - these are diesel engines, with lots of use, poor oci and they survive a LONG time. no special oil or additives. idk if it’s a testament to mack or the oil haha.

Bugout4x4

I understood. I was just pointing out that engines put to that kind of service should be maintained like a stationary engine would and by the hours, your maintenance manager needs to regroup. lol

But as for reliability we have to remember how much beefier a diesel is built, and how much more surface area there is to wear than a gas motor. Like you note, it is not uncommon to go a million miles before there is any catastrophic failures. Even then these are rare and they just need to be rebuilt due to lack of compression and poor fuel combustion more than anything else.

But now if the bearings get washed because of fuel or coolant getting into the oil this can cause a premature need for extensive work. So the moral is they are just designed to be more reliable from the start no matter what oil you choose to run in them. So a comparison between those and a 4.0 isn't really a close comparison. Different critters altogether.

s346k

i agree with you, they are totally different engines. however, i am comparing oil - those saying a car engine can’t survive on “car” oil clearly lack experience. diesel engines survive on “car” oil for the same amount of time they would on a zinc infested diesel oil. how can it be? ...but the internet says...but this video said...but this guy said...

bunch of hogwash. oil is oil with regard to 4.0s - change it regularly and it will be fine.

Bugout4x4

Oh I absolutely agree, I was just pointing out that the mileage comparison you used really can't apply to the two different engines because of how they are built.

CoffeeCommando