SeriousOffroad

How man times do I need to answer your question?

Studs do nothing to improve the performance or economy of a stock 4.0L motor.

The increased clamping pressure is a moot point on a stock 4.0L motor. If greater strength was needed there would be XJ's, TJ's, Yj's littering the roads with deattched heads.

There is no cosmetic appeal for Dubs-n-Chrome crowd.

And in order to get a set of ARP head studs you'll be buing 2 sets of Chevy stud kits since ARP doesn't offer them for a 4.0L.

http://issuu.com/arpbolts/docs/catal...owFlipBtn=true

http://www.jeepstrokers.com/forum/vi....php?f=5&t=265

Studs may have there place, but they are a waste of money and time on a stock motor.

I'd say this is a dead issue.

Gee oh Dee

Its a dead issue because you keep skating around my points and not really answering them.

Your arguement is that they will cost more, and the OEM equipment is fine.

Both are true, and I have agreed with both statements from the beginning.

However, you still haven't said any reason that they will harm anything.

You are the only one who brought anything cosmetic into this, and I don't understand why. This has nothing to do with cosmetic parts.

Never once did I say you gained power, MPG, or anything else you've brought up. You are just snowing us all in with your constant droning on about things only you've brought up.

How about you address the points I've actually brought up instead of dodging them?

What bad would they do?

Yes, I understand they cost more, I understand that OEM bolts will do the job.

But what does it hurt, exactly?

And, IIRC, its not just that studs offer higher clamping force, they do the job better. I'd have to dig up the information, but I know there is something out there.

And what about your sugestion about having to drop the motor? Can't you treat the studs like a bolt and drop them in the head?

SeriousOffroad

I never said they would harm anything.

You said they were better than OEM, I countered your comment. You keep harping on clamping pressure that is not needed.

Paying extra for a part/componnet that does nothing to increase performance, longevity, economy, appearance is a complete was of money. Kind like installing a chrome screen to your oil pick-up. Does nothing at all.

"Better Equipment" has to do something better than the part it is replacing. So please explain why a stud kit is better.

So far all you've said is that they provide more clamping pressure. Why is this needed or desireable on a bone-stock 4.0L motor. If your answers is nothing more than clamping pressure, then you running around in a circle.

No Hypotheticals, no Just-Cuz, no opinions.

As far as the intallation is concerned, it might be possible to drop the rear studs in after the head is in place. I'll have a look at my son's heep to confirm.

Gee oh Dee

Read below, claming force isn't all that I've been "harping" about.

My first click when I ran a google search yeilded an interesting result....

http://www.thomasnet.com/articles/ha...ead-stud-bolts

I know you LOVE OEM equipment because you seem to think it never fails, but if you are yanking a head in the first place, we both know OEM equipment has failed in some way or another.

There you have it. No Hypotheticals, no Just-Cuz, no opinions. Just fact.

Studs distribte the clamping force more accuratly resulting in a lower chance of HG failure.

But keep reading. At the end of the article, it says that its near impossible to say one is better than the other. The motor and many factors, including its intended use, typically dictate which is better.


So how in the world is the suggestion of using obviously better hardware a bad suggestion?

SeriousOffroad

From the article you linked to:

Gee oh Dee

Indeed. I said that at the end of my statement.

I've never once said its required. I said its not a bad idea if you can afford it.

I still don't understand how this suggestion is bad.

Gee oh Dee

This is just one way they are exactly better.

Still waiting to hear why my suggestion was bad...

I'm sorry you don't want to put better, stronger parts in your Jeep because they cost money.

Yes, they cost more. I agreed in my first post, and have not disputed that fact whatsoever.

But you still have not shown my information to be false.

And I'm still waiting.

ezab

On a high performance engine studs would be better. On a stock motor with low compression and IMO below average performance it would be nothing more than a waste of money to install studs. There are plenty of people on here with high mileage Jeeps using stock bolts with no problems. I have 220k on my head bolts so I have no idea what you would expect to gain with studs.

Gee oh Dee

I don't expect to gain anything. I just like knowing I used better parts that were available.

All I said is that studs are better quality, and I'd use them if I had the cash.

Then continued to defend my statement that studs are better than bolts. Sucessfully, by the way.

ezab

When it comes to a 4.0 I think they are both equal. You don't gain anything because it is not needed. It would be the same as buying a high torque starter for a stock engine, a complete waste of money. I would probably suggest replacing the bolts even though you can re-use them once, but as far as studs go they are not needed and you won't notice any difference.

Gee oh Dee

Something else I find entertaining.

One post you are so sure you can't use them without dropping the motor, then I suggest something different...

Then your not so sure.

Interesting.

Gee oh Dee

In that respect, I agree.

But if you've pulled the head, you can only use the studs as you've suggested, once more.

I know we all love these trucks, but if the motor needed to be pulled apart once already, who says it won't happen again?

Then your buying new bolts again.

So why not buy something that can be reused more than once? Thats all I'm getting at.

And I see no reason for implying or suggesting this isn't a valid statement, as FrankZ has been doing since I posted that I'd still use them if I could.

Not to mention its easier to line up the HG with studs.

SeriousOffroad

I don't have a 4.0L in my rig anymore, hence my comment.

You must have skipped the part where I said I'd confirm after looking at my son's XJ.

Interesting that you pick and choose snipits that you might be able to use to further your argument. In this case it's as relevant as your comment about my vendor status. Keep grasping at those straws...someday you'll have enough for a broom.


Yet again you are not able to give a compelling reason for using a stud kit other than clamping pressure and a a big "What If." Yes there is always the potential for having to remove the head again at some point. If it happens after the second use of the original bolts then the owners is going to be out the cost of a set of head bolts that he can use 2 times. How many times does the head have to come off before the cost of a stud kit(s) makes sense? 3 times? 5 times?

Out of the millions of 4.0l motors ever built, how many have had to have the head R&R'd multiple times? And out of those what is the percentage that have had to have it done more than 2 times? I don't have the numbers, you don't either. But I do know that the 4.0L motor was the engine of choice for Jeep because of it's reliability. Had there been a problem with the method of attaching the cylinder head we all would have been in line with a recall notice in hand and Jeep certainly would not have sold 4.0L equipped rigs by the millions.

You're dead set on using them....knock yourself out. But until you can show proof positive that the studs are superior for the average person driving a rig with a bone stock motor, you'll loose the argument.

And before you post your reply, I never said that studs were mechanically or structurally worse than OEM style hardware. Unneeded and frivolous with regards to the OP's needs....and just about everyone else's too.

And in case anyone wants to buy a stud kit for their motor.
$179.00
http://www.hesco.us/shop.asp?action=...D=42904&catId=

For that much I can buy 4 sets from Advanced Auto and yank a cylinder 8 times.
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...2_842811753___

In the end the buyer must ask him/herself the following.
Will there be an increase in HP?
Will there be an increase in Tq?
Will there be an increase in efficiency?
Will there be an improvement in appearance (if it's relevant to the purchase) ?
Do any of the above outweigh the cost?

Hopefully the OP will ask those questions and decide what is best for him.

Gee oh Dee

See, now compelling in this statement is your opinion. And we're not suppose to be using those. No Hypotheticals, no Just-Cuz, no opinions.

Just fact.

I stated in the beginning that I've left cost aside. Yet you still bring that up. You must've read over the many times I've said cost aside.

My picking and chosing your statements was to make a point. That you try and talk like you know and have seen everything, yet when someone (me) brings up a vaild point, your response is "lemme go check someone else's heep." It has nothing to do with me grasping at straws. I'm just showing that you don't know everything and just because you say something doesn't mean its law.

Yes, I've agreed many, many times. They are indeed more expensive.

If you don't have money to spend, then its good to know that you can reuse the factory hardware.

But that doesn't change the fact that studs offer more than OEM bolts can and ever will.

Period.

SeriousOffroad

So confirming prior to posting is a bad thing?