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Headlight Upgrades
12-01-2012, 08:45 PM
#166
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Year: 1990
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Engine: 4.0
So you guys don't have factory foglights then?
12-01-2012, 08:47 PM
#167
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same issue here, did you ever find the issue with yours???? tryin to do install now. all tore apart relays check out fine when put on high beam and click when I install into connector with power on.. but nothin out on the yellow wires. which I believe are the low beam... cant get wires out of connector to check them
Make sure the connectors are seated all the way in the relay connectors did my install earlier in the wek had no high beams right off the bat, come to find out I had handled the relay connectors alittle harsh trying to put the harness thu the core support and pulled high beam power wire out.
12-02-2012, 12:30 PM
#168
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Year: 1999
Model: Cherokee
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Yes, removing the fog fuse was what I found to help also last summer.
Thanks for the post on fixes!
Thanks for the post on fixes!
Got factory foglights on your 2000? If so, temporarily remove the foglight fuse.
If that fixes it, read this for the permanent fix:
Courtesy of EZEARL
Suppose to be the fix:
If you have stock fog lights on a 97+ and upgrade your harness in a manner that uses the factory wiring to trigger some new relays, your fog lights will have and/or cause issues unless you make some additional modifications to address the problem. It doesn't matter if you use a plug and play harness like the eautoworks or if you split your harness open and completely strip out all the extra factory wiring like I did. The factory fog circuit will cause your new lighting system to not work properly.
If you do nothing, your headlights will work as mentioned above. Low beams will be fine, but after you turn on your high beams, they will not turn off again until you completely turn off your headlights. Big issue here is that when you switch back to low beams, both the high beam and low beam filament will be remain powered causing your bulbs to endure 115W worth of heat output instead of the 55W or 60W that they are designed for. From what I've read this can cause them to overheat and burn out within minutes.
So what is happening? If you look at the driver's side headlight plug (and you have factory fogs) you will notice there are two red wires coming out of one of the terminals. One is a small 18g Red wire which sadly is the stock high beam wire. The other is an even smaller 20g Red wire which ties into Fog Lamp Relay #1 in the PDC. Please keep in mind that Fog Lamp Relay #1 is NOT used to provide battery power to the fog lights the way we commonly use them with aftermarket lighting. It is located before the switch and simply cuts power to the Fog Light Switch unless the Headlight Switch and Beam Selector Switch are in the proper positions. It does this as law dictates that you can't run your high beams and fogs at the same time. Though not a problem here in CA, I've read that states with safety inspection programs will fail your vehicle if the lights don't operate this way.
I dug into the wiring diagrams but had to have kastein help me decipher them because there was something about this circuit that just wasn't making much sense to me. I still don't understand the function of Fog Lamp Relay #1 in its entirety, but we're only concerned with the part that is affected by the headlight harness anyways. Essentially, when your Headlight Switch is off, the relay coil receives no power and therefore won't allow your fog lights to come on. When your Headlight Switch is turned on, one side of the relay's coil receives 12V which causes the relay to activate and send power through to your Fog Light Switch. When you turn your high beams on, 12V is sent out to your headlight socket via the Beam Selector Switch, and then is sent back to the other side of the relay coil via the skinny Red wire on that shared terminal. This brings both sides of the relay coil to 12V, thus causing it to deactivate and turn off the Fog Light Switch. Weird huh? The factory designed it so that the relay is off with both sides at 0V, on with one side at 12V, and then off again with both sides at 12V. While it makes perfect sense now, this is the part that was confusing me.
So what's the problem then? Well, it turns out that even when the high beams are off, there is still approximately 5V on that skinny Red trigger wire for some reason which I still don't understand. While this is obviously not a problem in the factory configuration, it becomes a problem when you are using the high beam wire (which is directly tied into the skinny Red wire) to trigger your aftermarket high beam relay. A typical automotive relay requires approximately 8V to activate and needs to drop to somewhere below 1-5V to deactivate. When you first turn on your lights there is no problem because the phantom 5V is not enough to activate your new high beam relay. When you turn your high beams on, your new relay gets 12V and kicks on. When you go to turn off your high beams, the phantom 5V keeps the new relay from deactivating and voilà, your high beams are stuck on...
So how do we fix this? There are a few common suggestions that are out there that I just wasn't happy with, and a few that sort of work, but not as required by law:
1. Don't use your high beams, new lights are bright enough anyways (OK...)
2. If you have to use your high beams, turn your headlights off briefly to get them turn off (PITA)
3. Pull various fuses (lose your fog lights)
4. Pull the fog lamp relay (again, lose your fog lights)
5. Modify the fog lamp relay (fog lights work, but won't cut out when your high beams are on?)
6. Install a jumper in place of the fog light relay (fog lights work, but switch is always hot?)
One post I saw got it right though. lilredxj99 mentioned it in another thread which I didn't find until after the fact. The details were a little fuzzy and I still thought the issue deserved some further explanation so that's why I just wrote this damn novel...
Oh yeah, so the right way to do it... Cut the 20g Red Fog Lamp Relay #1 ground/trigger wire at the back of the driver's side headlight plug. Extend this wire using your preferred method so that it is long enough to reach your new aftermarket high beam relay. Splice it into the 87 pin (output) of your new high beam relay. If you have two 87's (which is ideal), either one is OK. Do not however use 87a if your relay has it!
Yep, that's it... Your high beams will now turn off when they're supposed to, your fog lights will turn on/off when they're supposed to, and your low beams will continue to work as they're supposed to. Sure you could have skipped all the way down to the bottom and found your answer, but you wanted to know how/why it works, right?
If that fixes it, read this for the permanent fix:
Courtesy of EZEARL
Suppose to be the fix:
If you have stock fog lights on a 97+ and upgrade your harness in a manner that uses the factory wiring to trigger some new relays, your fog lights will have and/or cause issues unless you make some additional modifications to address the problem. It doesn't matter if you use a plug and play harness like the eautoworks or if you split your harness open and completely strip out all the extra factory wiring like I did. The factory fog circuit will cause your new lighting system to not work properly.
If you do nothing, your headlights will work as mentioned above. Low beams will be fine, but after you turn on your high beams, they will not turn off again until you completely turn off your headlights. Big issue here is that when you switch back to low beams, both the high beam and low beam filament will be remain powered causing your bulbs to endure 115W worth of heat output instead of the 55W or 60W that they are designed for. From what I've read this can cause them to overheat and burn out within minutes.
So what is happening? If you look at the driver's side headlight plug (and you have factory fogs) you will notice there are two red wires coming out of one of the terminals. One is a small 18g Red wire which sadly is the stock high beam wire. The other is an even smaller 20g Red wire which ties into Fog Lamp Relay #1 in the PDC. Please keep in mind that Fog Lamp Relay #1 is NOT used to provide battery power to the fog lights the way we commonly use them with aftermarket lighting. It is located before the switch and simply cuts power to the Fog Light Switch unless the Headlight Switch and Beam Selector Switch are in the proper positions. It does this as law dictates that you can't run your high beams and fogs at the same time. Though not a problem here in CA, I've read that states with safety inspection programs will fail your vehicle if the lights don't operate this way.
I dug into the wiring diagrams but had to have kastein help me decipher them because there was something about this circuit that just wasn't making much sense to me. I still don't understand the function of Fog Lamp Relay #1 in its entirety, but we're only concerned with the part that is affected by the headlight harness anyways. Essentially, when your Headlight Switch is off, the relay coil receives no power and therefore won't allow your fog lights to come on. When your Headlight Switch is turned on, one side of the relay's coil receives 12V which causes the relay to activate and send power through to your Fog Light Switch. When you turn your high beams on, 12V is sent out to your headlight socket via the Beam Selector Switch, and then is sent back to the other side of the relay coil via the skinny Red wire on that shared terminal. This brings both sides of the relay coil to 12V, thus causing it to deactivate and turn off the Fog Light Switch. Weird huh? The factory designed it so that the relay is off with both sides at 0V, on with one side at 12V, and then off again with both sides at 12V. While it makes perfect sense now, this is the part that was confusing me.
So what's the problem then? Well, it turns out that even when the high beams are off, there is still approximately 5V on that skinny Red trigger wire for some reason which I still don't understand. While this is obviously not a problem in the factory configuration, it becomes a problem when you are using the high beam wire (which is directly tied into the skinny Red wire) to trigger your aftermarket high beam relay. A typical automotive relay requires approximately 8V to activate and needs to drop to somewhere below 1-5V to deactivate. When you first turn on your lights there is no problem because the phantom 5V is not enough to activate your new high beam relay. When you turn your high beams on, your new relay gets 12V and kicks on. When you go to turn off your high beams, the phantom 5V keeps the new relay from deactivating and voilà, your high beams are stuck on...
So how do we fix this? There are a few common suggestions that are out there that I just wasn't happy with, and a few that sort of work, but not as required by law:
1. Don't use your high beams, new lights are bright enough anyways (OK...)
2. If you have to use your high beams, turn your headlights off briefly to get them turn off (PITA)
3. Pull various fuses (lose your fog lights)
4. Pull the fog lamp relay (again, lose your fog lights)
5. Modify the fog lamp relay (fog lights work, but won't cut out when your high beams are on?)
6. Install a jumper in place of the fog light relay (fog lights work, but switch is always hot?)
One post I saw got it right though. lilredxj99 mentioned it in another thread which I didn't find until after the fact. The details were a little fuzzy and I still thought the issue deserved some further explanation so that's why I just wrote this damn novel...
Oh yeah, so the right way to do it... Cut the 20g Red Fog Lamp Relay #1 ground/trigger wire at the back of the driver's side headlight plug. Extend this wire using your preferred method so that it is long enough to reach your new aftermarket high beam relay. Splice it into the 87 pin (output) of your new high beam relay. If you have two 87's (which is ideal), either one is OK. Do not however use 87a if your relay has it!
Yep, that's it... Your high beams will now turn off when they're supposed to, your fog lights will turn on/off when they're supposed to, and your low beams will continue to work as they're supposed to. Sure you could have skipped all the way down to the bottom and found your answer, but you wanted to know how/why it works, right?
12-02-2012, 12:37 PM
#169
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Hi to all,new to the site.for those having problems when they install the Putco harness and are having problems with their fog lights.You are back feeding the new relays through the factory fog relay,all you have to do is cut the thin red wire at the left headlight and add a diode,with the line on the diode facing the wire that goes to the relay and the other end to the wire that goes to the harness.The fog relay is grounded through the filament of the high beams,that is why when you apply your high beams your fog lights turn off.
12-02-2012, 12:48 PM
#170
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Year: 1994
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0 high output
Hey can you please te;; me the name of these clear lenses? i have been looking for some like those, for quite a bit, are they a china brand or a decent brand?
12-02-2012, 12:49 PM
#171
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Year: 1994
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0 high output
Just tossing this in... $23 ebay shipped headlights... Glass housings... H4 bulbs... Little blue 194 bulb which ill swap for nice white led bulbs I got and hook to my parking lights... Glass looks sealed nicely... Bulbs are a pain to get the clip off but ill do it... Im sure they are not quality bulbs but ill swap for silverstars or the like later... When they burn out in a week... Lol... But for $23 why not? Oh and harness otw come payday...
thank you
12-02-2012, 01:30 PM
#172
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Model: Comanche
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Shortly after that I added a link yo the ones I got... See in my sig now installed... And my avatar pic... they are a cheap china brand im sure but they are a simple design that cant really be screwed up... Glass lense is the key to keep from age yellowing of plastic...
12-09-2012, 05:10 PM
#173
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im just curious pardon my noobness. but why not just get the new h4 lamps and then get a 35w HID setup? now im new to jeeps not headlights. as coming from the honda scene i have done a few mods/retros. the excuse of the stock wiring cant support it, is a honest joke. my dads 89 acura,brothers 97 montero has had an 35w setup for over 5 years now and no issues. not to mention the montero has hi/lo beam setup that came with a harness from the HID seller. why is this not more common on these jeeps? im in the process of doing this just looking at what housing i am gonna do.
this is the one thats striking my interest
this is the one thats striking my interest
12-09-2012, 06:06 PM
#174
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Year: 1990
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Installed my harness yesterday finally. I used the radiator support bolts for my grounds and I put a washer inbetween the bolt and the surface. I grinded both the washer and the surface. So far whatever sealed housings are in there are quite a bit brighter and whiter. No issues with high and lows at all. I hope it stays that way. I also installed two fuse holders with 15 amp fuses just to protect the circuit a little bit
12-09-2012, 06:11 PM
#175
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Year: 1990
Model: Comanche
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I was gonna buy the harness but installed all my lights and they are as bright as I could ask for... I had the entire engine harness out and sprayed all the connectors out... Rebuilt with all new wire looms... Like new... Works great! I need to take a pic of the brightness just with these h4 bulb and glass housing swap...
12-10-2012, 09:03 AM
#177
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Year: 2001
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I am going into mine looming the power side and redoing a few things . My lights are nice and bright need to re aim them alittle .
I'm looking for some different bulbs just to play with . It seems to me with the vision plus housings I am going to have to find a happy median with aiming . High beams are out there . I guess I need to set them down alittle .
I'm looking for some different bulbs just to play with . It seems to me with the vision plus housings I am going to have to find a happy median with aiming . High beams are out there . I guess I need to set them down alittle .
12-11-2012, 11:31 PM
#178
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Year: 1992
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
After some research, I was planning on doing this:
Housing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/200mm-H6054-...30594258615%26
Bulbs:
Harness:
I'm assuming that housing will work, since the link from the guide I was reading was sold out, and this was a related item.
How does this look? Any other recommendations?
Housing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/200mm-H6054-...30594258615%26
Bulbs:
Harness:
I'm assuming that housing will work, since the link from the guide I was reading was sold out, and this was a related item.
How does this look? Any other recommendations?
Last edited by 92XJGuy; 12-11-2012 at 11:35 PM.
12-12-2012, 05:25 AM
#179
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Fine except I'm not sure about blue bulbs. Just have no experience with them. You know, some of those ebay sellers will allow you to upgrade higher wattage bulbs for a nominal fee when you buy their lights.
12-12-2012, 09:41 AM
#180
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Here we go, towards the end of the video he shows a comparison.