OldTires

Installed a remanufactured ACDelco steering gear last weekend. I followed the instructions from ACDelco, flushed the old fluid out of the pump, made sure not to turn any of the shafts on the gear, as they say it was centered. Filled with steering fluid, turned the wheels a bunch of times until the new fluid filled up the system, then turned on the Jeep. Made more turns to clear the bubbles. Turning felt tight, but turned. Went around the block, steering felt tight, but turned. Later on in the afternoon the steering pump died.

Long story short, I had it towed to a service station, they put in a new pump (Jenco or Janco brand, they said), but the steering still feels tight when making turns. And it makes slight groaning noises when turning that get loader if turning under stress.

So is it a tight gear box or a crappy steering pump?

Anyway to get check (if I lift the front wheels off the ground I can turn the wheels from outside by pushing them with my hands, so I don't think the suspension is binding)?\

Thanks.

5-Speed

Reman steering boxes can be a hit or miss. The AC Delco one I put in my XJ was a hair on the loose side. If the box is setup too tight, it doesnt allow the steering to self center. So does yours self center when you let off the wheel or you physically have to center the wheel?

Pumps are the same way. Some reman ones are good, some are bad. If its making noises, that normally means it still has air in the system, which would make the steering feel stiffer.

OldTires

The wheels do come back to center after turning, but sometimes I feel like I have to help them because they are not coming back fast enough.

And it feels tighter on the driver side.

I am wondering if the gear is too tight and if it will kill the pump?

5-Speed

Well, if you feel like voiding the warranty, you can mess with the set screw. Thats what I did and it worked out great. Just do 1/4 turns and keep track of how many you do in case you need to revert back.

And yes, if the box is too tight, it will wear the pump out faster then normal since its always going to be working harder then it should.

EZEARL

More importantly if the steering box is as tight as you describe it'll destroy the gears causing you to lose steering. Unless you can find another cause I'd not be driving it much. You could loosen the adjuster and back off the screw a 1/4 turn at a time and see what the results are. I've never seen a new or remanufactured box over tight but too loose a number of times. The one we had installed in our '96 Blazer was way too loose.

dave1123

When I bought my 2000 XJ it had a reman steering box and pump installed, or so the seller said. It looked new anyway. It had been sitting a while and the steering was very stiff, like wouldn't return to center at all. Now that I've put a couple of thousand miles on it, it seems to be normal the way it should be. The main reason he sold it was he had replaced the oil pump but still had low oil pressure at idle. I replaced the pressure sender with a Mopar unit and switched to Rotella T6 5W-40 and now have 30 psi at idle hot. Good to go. Touch the throttle and you've got better than 40-45 psi. The only weird thing is he didn't tell me about the oil pump, but he had notes written in the margins in a Haynes manual he left in the cargo area. So much for subterfuge! The starter was bright and shiny and still had a Mopar part number on it.

The one I put in my 2000 WJ, on the other hand, seems to be too loose. I'm going to try a 1/4 turn tighter and see if it makes a difference. Just rocking the steering wheel back and forth doesn't show any looseness, but maybe it can be improved. It's an AC Delco as well.

OldTires

Thanks for the input, guys.

Looking at rebuild videos online, I see there are 2 places where they could have over tightened the box: 1) the lock nut at the input shaft or 2) the gear set screw at the output shaft. I should have turned them by hand before installing to feel the resistance (lesson learned).

I am tempted to pull it and return it, which would be a PITA.

Or try adjusting the set screw at the top and hope that fixes it.

Or keep driving it the way it is and hope it loosens up.

But I am driving down to the jersey shore in a month and the girl friend doesn't share my affinity for fixing the Jeep. She just wants to know that it can get us there and back with no issues.

94XJCherokee

I just replaced my gear box on my 1996. Mine is also a bit tight, it self centers fine. After driving it more and more, it seems like it's loosening up. Either that or I'm just getting used to it.

Jeepwalker

Ok, hard to diagnose your system w/o seeing it. A guy can only put SO much torque on the adjustments. Secondly, the range of torquing a steering gear is pretty wide. It's not as specific as you'd think, and isn't rocket science either way. A person would have to be a real ape to overtighten it. Don't blame the steering gear right away.

If I were putting on a new re-man steering gear, I would bleed the fluid from the lines and pump BEFORE installing them to the new gear. Why pump the new gear with rotten old fluid full of shavings? Or, install a new pump at that time.

Also, on an older Jeep, the intermediate shaft is often overlooked. There you have one or two very small u-joints and the SLIGHTEST amount of play at the joints is magnified and can cause loose steering. If there is a rag joint in the steering (on some vehicles), same thing: micro-slop can cause a loose steering wheel effect.

As a general rule, if you want to keep your steering tight: DON'T EVER TURN THE STEERING WHEEL OR STEER THE VEHICLE UNLESS THE VEHICLE IS RUNNING!!! Cranking on the steering w/o steering assist puts an incredible amount of additional stress on the intermediate shaft, splines and anything between the steering wheel and steering gear input shaft. ...Compared to using steering 'assist' (power steering). Keep that in mind and you'll enjoy a lot longer operating steering box.

Also: the design of a power steering box, (the typical Saganaw-style design commonly used), is comprised of two shafts (Input and main). The input shaft is a stubby shaft at the top of the box that mates to the main shaft. They are separate. It's important to understand that these shafts aren't fused together and a slight amount of play is built into them. The 'play' of the inputs shaft is essentially the valve which ports fluid to either side of the assist piston (shall we say) and adds the power assist. Put another way, you can't ever get the typical steering box to feel 100% tight with NO play like is possible with a manual steering box b/c a small amount of play at the input shaft is REQUIRED to act as the fluid valve. I hope that makes sense.

In order to correctly tighten a p/s box you need to loosen the top adjusting screw all the way, then tighten the pre-load to meet spec. It's a wide spec too. Only then do you tighten the top screw. You need to do that on a bench, in a vice maybe. But again, even on the bench, there will always be a 'slight' amt of steering play at the input shaft due to the fact that the input stub shaft is independent of the main shaft. Most (not all) of that play goes away when the vehicle is operating. That's why historically, some discerning drivers always knocked american vehicles with sloppy steering. American roads didn't demand as precise steering as, say, European roads. But those steering boxes last a long time ..past the life of a vehicle. For 60's-80's Corvettes and early Mustangs, ...and vehicles where 'sporty handling' was requred, manufacturers adopted a hybrid system using a Manual steering box and a slave 'assist' cylinder attached to the center-link. That arrangement gave more precise road steering with assist at parking lot speeds when ya really need it.

One other thought: Most people jump to the conclusion that the steering gear is bad right away and start tightening the adjustment. A lot of steering boxes don't die, they're Murdered (by owners). First is to check all the linkages, then the intermediate shaft and any rag joints. THEN the steering gear. They rarely fail on their own. As an example, I have a GM P-U with 276,000 miles. The steering was becoming very sloppy. I removed the steering box to rebuild it (even had the kit!). On the bench I check the pre-load and it was right smack within specs! I couldn't find any wear or 'play' even on the output shaft. As I got looking, the intermediate shaft had developed 'play' at the slip joint, AND at the rag joint. Particularly at the rag joint (flexible coupler). Added together it was the sole problem. New shaft and flexible coupler and bingo, tight steering!

OldTires

Thanks, Jeepwalker, great info. I think I am going to leave it alone for now, and not mess with the gearbox. After driving some more, it seems to be quieting down and getting a little looser (it mostly groans now when making left turns). Or I am getting used to it. I was a pretty lazy driver, doing most of my driving with one hand, elbow on the armrest of the door. The sloppy steering didn't bother me at all, maybe when windy on the highway.

About the intermediate shaft, I see and hear that it is supposed to retract a little, but I couldn't get my to do so. How do I get them to retract?

Also, I am thinking of put in a bottle of Royal Purple steering fluid, as it claims to quiet the pump down. Would it help?

OldTires

Update!

The gearbox steering is feeling better now, and the steering pump installed by the service station has quieted down considerably, only groaning when making hard left.

However, when I was crawling underneath the Jeep last weekend doing the engine mounts, I noticed the bottom of the steering pump reservoir is wet. I wiped it away, but it came back. All the hoses look dry, so I am guessing a seal in the pump or reservoir is failing. I am taking it back to the service station tomorrow and let them deal with it as it is still under warranty. This gearbox change is really turning out to be more expensive and time consuming than I expected. And I still need to get a new alignment cause it looks like my wheels are toe-out and I keep having to correct the steering.

dave1123

Next time you're under there, wipe some of the PS fluid on that belt adjuster screw.

OldTires

I was going to try some WD40

Seriously, I just dropped it off at the service station so they can look at the leaky pump they installed, and I am feeling a little anxious about leaving the Jeep in someone else's care. This feeling is not normal.

OldTires

Got it back from the service station and they said they couldn't find a leak in the steering pump. Hmmm (I wonder if they used stop leak). I checked it this morning and there is no leak. Oh well.

Took it to get the wheels aligned this morning. Got it back, went around the block, and the steering wheel is off center by a lot. Drive it right back to the shop (another hour), and they do the alignment again. The kid doing the alignment didn't look like he had too much experience but he was trying, turning the adjustment barrels and looking at the computer (I wanted to tell him to set the toe first, then align the steering wheel but I kept my mouth shut). I did tell him the Jeep FSM prefers +0.25 degree toe (I thought they would look that up first). Anyway, now it drives better, but I haven't done highway driving yet.

OldTires

I am updating this thread so it may help someone else in the future. Now that the mosquitoes are gone and I can safely wrench under the Jeep, I decided troubleshoot my steering issues again. As much as I wanted to blame the reman gearbox, I was also thinking I probably screwed up somehow when doing the install.

First I made sure to note my wheel toe in case I mess it up.




Then, instead of putting the front wheels straight and then adjusting the steering wheel via the drag-link adjustment sleeve, I turned the steering wheel until the pitman arm was centered (you have to get under the pitman arm and look up). As I am in the process of rebuilding the my old gearbox, I have found out they do have a center point where the rotation sticks, and it happens to be with arm centered.

Anyway, once I centered the pitman arm, the wheels were turning right. So then I disconnected the drag-link from the pitman arm.

On a tools note, having the right tools makes are big different. After breaking the $20 pitman arm puller from AZ I bought this set from Amazon for $55.





Once the ball joint was separated, I jacked up the front wheels just enough so I could turned them straight. This showed me how off the drag link length was relative to the centered pitman arm.



I then shortened the adjustment sleeve enough so that the ball joint was centered to the pitman arm, and reinstalled. Everything was centered now except for the steering wheel, which was point to 3 oclock.

So I then adjusted the draglink sleeve again, until the steering wheel was centered. This, of course, throws the pitman arm off center now, but I believe it is not at the same extreme distance as before. And here I assume the gearbox/pitman arm have a side to side range to allow for steering wheel adjustments. I say this because every video and instruction I have seen never mentions that the pitman arm has to be dead center. In fact, it looks like the gearbox/pitman arm center point is sacrificed to the steering wheel center point.



After this adjustment, it is easier to keep the Jeep straight, but it still wants to wander, which still has me making micro steering wheel adjustments while driving, which annoys me. I think this is due to the gearbox pulling to one side. I noticed this while looking up at the pitman arm with the Jeep running and the drag link disconnected. If I centered the pitman arm, it would slowly shift a few degree to the passenger side. Every time I adjusted it to center, it would not stay center. This would explain the feeling I get at the steering wheel that I am fighting another force that is pulling in a different direction.

I am going to rebuild my old gearbox and install it. in the process I am going to replace the intermediate steering link just because the old one looks to be in poor shape.

Question, is there a way to adjust the intermediate link to help center the steering wheel without adjusting the draglink?