No charging after Check Gauges light and p1682 code
11-23-2019, 12:41 PM
#32
Banned
Baloney.
Full fielding the alternator is an old school test........
Noah? Any idea what voltage he should expect?
Now, this is from the 98 Jeep FSM regarding charging system testing. They say to use a tester that has a DC current probe and a carbon rehostat load. (sort of like what I said the big box stores do.) Notwithstanding they offer the following
"CAUTION; WHEN ADJUSTING THE REHOSTAT LOAD, DO NO ALLOW VOLTAGE TO RISE ABOVE 16 VOLTS. DAMAGE TO THE BATTERY AND ELECTRICAL SYSTEM COMPONENTS MAY RESULT."
and this:
"CAUTION: DO NOT CONNECT THE JUMPER GROUND WIRE TO GENERATOR FIELD SOURCE FIELD TERMINAL. DAMAGE TO ELECTRICAL SYSTEM COMPONENTS MAY RESULT."
Full fielding the alternator is an old school test........
Noah? Any idea what voltage he should expect?
Now, this is from the 98 Jeep FSM regarding charging system testing. They say to use a tester that has a DC current probe and a carbon rehostat load. (sort of like what I said the big box stores do.) Notwithstanding they offer the following
"CAUTION; WHEN ADJUSTING THE REHOSTAT LOAD, DO NO ALLOW VOLTAGE TO RISE ABOVE 16 VOLTS. DAMAGE TO THE BATTERY AND ELECTRICAL SYSTEM COMPONENTS MAY RESULT."
and this:
"CAUTION: DO NOT CONNECT THE JUMPER GROUND WIRE TO GENERATOR FIELD SOURCE FIELD TERMINAL. DAMAGE TO ELECTRICAL SYSTEM COMPONENTS MAY RESULT."
Like I said...15+ VOLTS
11-23-2019, 01:10 PM
#33
Banned
I am not telling this to make me right... And, I am in no way what I consider to be a great auto mechanic either. But, I did stay in one of these places last night!
I do know a little something about electronics my own self. In fact, the organization I work for - known as The Department of Homeland Security. They have entrusted for me to oversee field operations in the Northeastern region United States power grid. I work around 300kV primary transmission lines running thousands of miles, their substations, distribution lines, and all of the other assets associated within the United States power grid each and every day. Messing something up and to make a mistake is not an option. Making a wrong call or mistake could set the North-western hemisphere on fire.
The organization just started me to take over in this position though. So, I am still in training and have a lot to learn yet.
Last edited by Noah911; 11-24-2019 at 03:43 AM.
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BruceB (11-23-2019)
11-23-2019, 10:10 PM
#34
Banned
Cleaning the battery cable connections and major ground connections, and replacing any suspect battery cables is cheap and easy. This is a 20-year old vehicle so poor connections are almost a given. The voltage regulator in the ECM typically fails altogether and you have no charging versus being intermittent. I'm not saying the ECM isn't bad, but in my experience, charging issues are more likely to be due to cables, connections, corroded fuses, and crappy box-store alternators.
Also, P1682 is NOT a charging issue. https://www.engine-codes.com/p1682.html. Given that you said working the key back-n-forth can recreate or fix the issue, I would suspect the ignition switch. When you have a no-charging issue with the engine running, check if you have full battery voltage to the alternator. As mentioned, one wire should be at battery voltage and the ECM controls the ground side of it. If you don't then your problem is not the alternator or the ECM. Measuring the ECM controlled side with your meter, you should see varying voltage depending on how much charging the ECM is commanding. Close to zero if commanding it to charge, and battery voltage if the ecm is not commanding it to charge.
Also, P1682 is NOT a charging issue. https://www.engine-codes.com/p1682.html. Given that you said working the key back-n-forth can recreate or fix the issue, I would suspect the ignition switch. When you have a no-charging issue with the engine running, check if you have full battery voltage to the alternator. As mentioned, one wire should be at battery voltage and the ECM controls the ground side of it. If you don't then your problem is not the alternator or the ECM. Measuring the ECM controlled side with your meter, you should see varying voltage depending on how much charging the ECM is commanding. Close to zero if commanding it to charge, and battery voltage if the ecm is not commanding it to charge.
11-24-2019, 02:22 PM
#36
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Year: 1998 Classic (I'll get it running soon....) and 02 Grand
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Engine: 4.0
Cleaning the battery cable connections and major ground connections, and replacing any suspect battery cables is cheap and easy. This is a 20-year old vehicle so poor connections are almost a given. The voltage regulator in the ECM typically fails altogether and you have no charging versus being intermittent. I'm not saying the ECM isn't bad, but in my experience, charging issues are more likely to be due to cables, connections, corroded fuses, and crappy box-store alternators.
Yep. Cheap, maybe free. Not difficult. Start there. If that's not it, well, it needed to be done anyway.
11-25-2019, 11:01 AM
#37
At this point, I'm about to have it ran by my local jeep dealership for a diagnostic check. The problem is looking more and more computer related. A friend of mine with auto background had help to diagnose with me what was going on where we basically started checking off what was wrong. Definitely it's a cold start problem, as the vehicle will not code when it was warm. There is some sort of shorting question since we have done the terminal test when we took off the positive clamp and left the negative on and no resistance. Also, at the time it just so happened to CHECK CLUSTER code while he was there and we checked the voltage right at the battery and the clamps, both read 12.5v at the multimeter while the gauge cluster was pegged all the way to the left at 9v. So something is obviously telling the cluster to tell the sensor and/or the cluster to not read voltage correctly. At this point, it is very likely a ECM issue. But why get just a voltage regulator when you could still run the risk of it being in the ECM? Why not just get a new ECM and be done with it? This is why I am considering a diagnostic test at the dealership. If they can run it down to the ECM the faster I can get to shopping for a new ECM and be done. Hopefully it isn't a harness issue because then we're practically at square one and to start chasing this down. Unless someone can think of a way to test if it is the voltage regulator without the test being install a voltage regulator kit. At that point, I might as well buy a new ECM. Or a junkyard ECM and troubleshoot whatever problems that new junker ECM might have also.
We're sorry to hear about your experience. If you need any assistance while working with your dealer, please send us a PM.
Alex
JeepCares
11-25-2019, 06:58 PM
#38
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Year: 1998 Classic (I'll get it running soon....) and 02 Grand
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Hi edwardrg360, JeepCares is sometimes Alex, and sometimes Laura, and possibly other names, and is either a nutcase or a scammer of some kind. I strongly recommend you simply ignore him/her/it, and in no case engage in a PM exchange or provide any contact information.
12-21-2019, 03:45 PM
#39
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Year: 1999
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0
Just felt I owed an update to this thread. It's been a couple days since my 1999 Cherokee Classic has been back from dealership diagnostics. It was affirmed that the issue was in fact the PCM/ECM and unfortunately had a $185+TAX education/diagnostic fee associated with it. The test also did not yield a definitive VOLTAGE REGULATOR issue as the dealership doesn't classify the two as separate issues and will by default to attribute voltage regulator issues or any other regulator issues for that matter tied to the PCM/ECM, as the PCM/ECM is the paramount issue. The only way I can help aid this thread is to let folks know what I would have done in hind sight to test for myself if it was a PCM/ECM issue VS a voltage regulator issue VS another rogue issue. I'd feel like the main issue is to save time (inadvertently saving money) and address whether or not if money (keep purchasing new parts) or diagnostics (paying dealership to troubleshoot) will be best.
I asked myself the same question over and over, if this was a VOLTAGE REGULATOR issue exclusively or perhaps it was voltage regulator (secondary) + ECM/PCM (primary issue). As I said, dealership will only direct you to a PCM/ECM issue and won't help entertain your "which part of the PCM/ECM is the problem" - hangups. Had I known that, if I had more time on my hands and this car WASN'T my daily driver, wouldn't mind doing more part shopping & review reading, and I'd attack the VOLTAGE REGULATOR myself with one of those ~$60 external kits. The caveat to that is, you need to do some wire splicing, wire hunting (best tapping wire to feed it with enough power and turns off and on only upon ignition) and minor fab that after a long spendy vacation, I wasn't feeling savvy or patient enough to do myself on my daily driver. Also, if you have an underlying issue of it actually being a PCM/ECM issue, not really the voltage regulator, you run yourself another set of issues and expenses.
What I would have done differently... well, as I knew I was likely not to get myself a definitive answer of whether it was just the VOLTAGE REGULATOR, and I can attest to that now after diagnostics, I would have swapped the PCM/ECM out with one I felt didn't have an alarm on it previously (jeep said that can shutdown the vehicle) coded to it. To be honest though, you really just need to find another working PCM/ECM for your year XJ, plug that in (only 3 bolts & 3 plugs), if you've done all the previous home/parts store diagnostics mentioned prior to the dealership's diagnostics, and the voltage goes back up to 13.5~14.5v after the swap then you should know it is an PCM/ECM issue and skip the diagnostic fee I paid for. I was told by one helper, that they'd take my PCM/ECM back at the store regardless if the part worked or not to fix my voltage issue. You can interpret that in any way you see fit. Although, there are 2 routes there, if you go to the junkyard (97-98's for the early 99 XJs w/ distributor or 99-01's for later 99 XJs w/ heating coils) and get one without a previous alarm coded to it, you got yourself a quick, easy, cheap (~$50); semi-solid fix if it doesn't have other issues on that PCM/ECM. If you want to go as close to OEM and stock (no splicing and mounting w/ external voltage regulator kit) as possible, you'd replace a serviced PCM/ECM for about $100-$300 which will also need FLASHING ($185+TAX from my dealership) having you significantly pay more than external voltage regulator kit and/or junkyard PCM/ECM scenario, but I had somewhat better peace of mind after knowing my XJ was practically in cherry condition. Just would've skipped the dealership diagnostic check and checked the PCM/ECM with another one, and if that had put my voltage back to regular I'd know it could be remedied with a new one.
So hopefully that was helpful, good luck!
E.G.
I asked myself the same question over and over, if this was a VOLTAGE REGULATOR issue exclusively or perhaps it was voltage regulator (secondary) + ECM/PCM (primary issue). As I said, dealership will only direct you to a PCM/ECM issue and won't help entertain your "which part of the PCM/ECM is the problem" - hangups. Had I known that, if I had more time on my hands and this car WASN'T my daily driver, wouldn't mind doing more part shopping & review reading, and I'd attack the VOLTAGE REGULATOR myself with one of those ~$60 external kits. The caveat to that is, you need to do some wire splicing, wire hunting (best tapping wire to feed it with enough power and turns off and on only upon ignition) and minor fab that after a long spendy vacation, I wasn't feeling savvy or patient enough to do myself on my daily driver. Also, if you have an underlying issue of it actually being a PCM/ECM issue, not really the voltage regulator, you run yourself another set of issues and expenses.
What I would have done differently... well, as I knew I was likely not to get myself a definitive answer of whether it was just the VOLTAGE REGULATOR, and I can attest to that now after diagnostics, I would have swapped the PCM/ECM out with one I felt didn't have an alarm on it previously (jeep said that can shutdown the vehicle) coded to it. To be honest though, you really just need to find another working PCM/ECM for your year XJ, plug that in (only 3 bolts & 3 plugs), if you've done all the previous home/parts store diagnostics mentioned prior to the dealership's diagnostics, and the voltage goes back up to 13.5~14.5v after the swap then you should know it is an PCM/ECM issue and skip the diagnostic fee I paid for. I was told by one helper, that they'd take my PCM/ECM back at the store regardless if the part worked or not to fix my voltage issue. You can interpret that in any way you see fit. Although, there are 2 routes there, if you go to the junkyard (97-98's for the early 99 XJs w/ distributor or 99-01's for later 99 XJs w/ heating coils) and get one without a previous alarm coded to it, you got yourself a quick, easy, cheap (~$50); semi-solid fix if it doesn't have other issues on that PCM/ECM. If you want to go as close to OEM and stock (no splicing and mounting w/ external voltage regulator kit) as possible, you'd replace a serviced PCM/ECM for about $100-$300 which will also need FLASHING ($185+TAX from my dealership) having you significantly pay more than external voltage regulator kit and/or junkyard PCM/ECM scenario, but I had somewhat better peace of mind after knowing my XJ was practically in cherry condition. Just would've skipped the dealership diagnostic check and checked the PCM/ECM with another one, and if that had put my voltage back to regular I'd know it could be remedied with a new one.
So hopefully that was helpful, good luck!
E.G.
12-21-2019, 04:36 PM
#40
CF Veteran
Been running the external regulator from a power wagon (new reg) now for about 6 months, no problems. In fact it works great. $15 for the reg and another $5 for the connector.
12-22-2019, 06:43 AM
#41
CF Veteran
I am not telling this to make me right... And, I am in no way what I consider to be a great auto mechanic either. But, I did stay in one of these places last night!
I do know a little something about electronics my own self. In fact, the organization I work for - known as The Department of Homeland Security. They have entrusted for me to oversee field operations in the Northeastern region United States power grid. I work around 300kV primary transmission lines running thousands of miles, their substations, distribution lines, and all of the other assets associated within the United States power grid each and every day. Messing something up and to make a mistake is not an option. Making a wrong call or mistake could set the North-western hemisphere on fire.
But, I wonder, would you disregard the training manual instructions in the same way you disregard the FSM when it says this about full fielding the alternator:
"CAUTION: DO NOT CONNECT THE JUMPER GROUND WIRE TO GENERATOR FIELD SOURCE FIELD TERMINAL. DAMAGE TO ELECTRICAL SYSTEM COMPONENTS MAY RESULT."
12-22-2019, 06:34 PM
#42
Banned
As I enjoyed a holiday Heineken beer last night, I was relieved that the safety of our nation's Northeastern, or wait, was it Northwestern? (don’t want to 'set the north-western hemisphere on fire') power grid.... is entrusted to your competent hands.
But, I wonder, would you disregard the training manual instructions in the same way you disregard the FSM when it says this about full fielding the alternator:
"CAUTION: DO NOT CONNECT THE JUMPER GROUND WIRE TO GENERATOR FIELD SOURCE FIELD TERMINAL. DAMAGE TO ELECTRICAL SYSTEM COMPONENTS MAY RESULT."
But, I wonder, would you disregard the training manual instructions in the same way you disregard the FSM when it says this about full fielding the alternator:
"CAUTION: DO NOT CONNECT THE JUMPER GROUND WIRE TO GENERATOR FIELD SOURCE FIELD TERMINAL. DAMAGE TO ELECTRICAL SYSTEM COMPONENTS MAY RESULT."
I do not have a degree in anything electrical of nature. It is not a requirement for the position. I have a degree in healthcare. Healthcare is my background of almost twenty years. Every single day I spent working in the healthcare field was spent in an emergency environment. I was busy making life and death decision's off of little, to no information, and even lies. There are books and protocols to follow for sure. When it really goes down and is happening though.. You do what you have to do!
I don't sweat it when the water level begins to rise.. I learned how to swim.
If I have to rewrite the training manuals myself? This is exactly what I will do...
Right now it is neither, the eastern or western.. or, the north or the south. If there is something going on that I need to know.. that is where I go.
Last edited by Noah911; 12-22-2019 at 06:38 PM.
12-22-2019, 08:03 PM
#43
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Year: 1998 Classic (I'll get it running soon....) and 02 Grand
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Yeah, except for the fact that such failures are actually pretty rare.
12-22-2019, 08:07 PM
#44
Banned
Since your education is in that of electricity. I am able to understand how you may have became confused on the definitions of the wording. So, I will educate you...
Northern Hemisphere - The half of the earth that lies north of the equater.
Southern Hemisphere - The half of the earth that lies south of the equator.
Western Hemisphere - The half of the earth that lies west of The Prime Meridian and east of The 180th Meridian.
Eastern Hemisphere - The half of the earth that lies east of The Prime Meridian and west of The 180th Meridian.
The four major hemispheres may be combined, and are known as The NorthWest, NorthEast, SouthWest, and The SouthEast Hemispheres.
The Northeastern region of the United States is located in The North-Western Hemisphere.
Does the new information I just provided to you allow it to make better sense for you now?
(Since you and I do not know one another on a personal level, and for anyone else reading.. I hope you understand? There is nothing ill-natured being applied. I am being light-hearted, easygoing, and free of seriousness)
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