Oil pump failed
08-28-2009, 11:29 AM
#31
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Year: 1998
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
you can get the head off and back on with air tools in 5 hours, not too hard
I was just kiddin' ya' about being heavy handed and strippin the threads .... didn't think you were actually torquing the pan on with an impact ... you really wouldn't do that, would ya'?
08-28-2009, 01:17 PM
#32
I put the motor together and contrary to your belief it was put together properly, including filling pump with vasoline and then priming it immediately before starting it with a drill and an old screw driver.
You missed the part where I said that I wasn't the only one that felt that the pump may have caused the problem or that others have experienced the same failure. That's okay, your old.
The motor was assembled properly.
I'm not some 19 year old kid that's never turned a wrench before. I've built a few motors myself.
Sorry that your such a bitter old man with a closed mind. Please feel free to add me to your ignore list.
Don't bother replying since you've got nothing else to say that is of any importance.
You missed the part where I said that I wasn't the only one that felt that the pump may have caused the problem or that others have experienced the same failure. That's okay, your old.
The motor was assembled properly.
I'm not some 19 year old kid that's never turned a wrench before. I've built a few motors myself.
Sorry that your such a bitter old man with a closed mind. Please feel free to add me to your ignore list.
Don't bother replying since you've got nothing else to say that is of any importance.
08-28-2009, 02:00 PM
#33
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Not bitter at all ... not real old either ... in fact,
Just not a crowd follower, Frank. Anecdotal evidence offered by you and others doesn't mean squat when measured against facts.
Maybe almost, but not quite, Frank ... and it jumped up and bit you, didn't it.
The motor was assembled properly.
08-28-2009, 05:02 PM
#34
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Wasn't quite finished my post when ...
my little finger inadvertently hit the 'Enter' key and launched the reply. I guess I coulda' blamed it on my computer (FrankZ woulda'), but, nope it was me ... I done it all by myself. I f@#$@#'d up.
To all you guys out there who want to be engine builders, take heed and learn a lesson. FrankZ did not "properly build" his motor as he says did. Here's why ...
I had stated earlier that the person who primes the pump must watch each individual rocker arm and observe the oil squirting out. He also must evaluate what he sees ... which begs the question of "what would you be looking for?", right?
It's plain to see by his photo that his number six was getting little or no oil. Incidentally he doesn't state how many hours were on the ill fated stroker either. Bet not too many though.
FrankZ could not POSSIBLY have watched the oil squirt on number six where his failure occured. Why? It's more than likely he had left the rocker arm cover on instead of 'off' like it should have been. Notice that he didn't state that he saw the oil squirting from each rocker arm (although he probably will now lol) ... only that he primed the pump with a drill ... actually, I even doubt that.
If he did have the cover off AND he had known what he was looking for, he would have seen either one of two things: No oil at all squirting from number six OR reduced oil from number six. If either was the case, a knowledgeable builder would have stopped, investigated, and cured the issue but, alas, a knowledgeable builder FrankZ is not.
FrankZ has asked us to "trust him that all other possibilites but the pump were eliminated". or words to that effect, to wit. I would not trust that at all ... he is either lying or posing ... take your pick.
I have noticed over many years of auto and motorcycle wrenching a tendency to deny culpability and attempt to redirect the blame when it comes to mistakes. Was pretty common in a dealership when a tech screwed something up .... a flaw of human nature, I s'pose. Can't change that.
My point is simply this: It matters NOT what FrankZ knows or doesn't know, did or didn't do. To spread malicious rumors about an excellent product like the Melling HV series of oil pumps is just simply wrong. I don't care what all the other people whom he refers to say either ... it's just hearsay and BS. He should 'man up', take the blame, move forward and learn from it instead of maligning a perfectly good product to make himself look better. That's all I know for now ...
Guess I'll just sit around on pins and needles, biting my nails, waiting for my
HV to fail ... LMAO.
To all you guys out there who want to be engine builders, take heed and learn a lesson. FrankZ did not "properly build" his motor as he says did. Here's why ...
I had stated earlier that the person who primes the pump must watch each individual rocker arm and observe the oil squirting out. He also must evaluate what he sees ... which begs the question of "what would you be looking for?", right?
It's plain to see by his photo that his number six was getting little or no oil. Incidentally he doesn't state how many hours were on the ill fated stroker either. Bet not too many though.
FrankZ could not POSSIBLY have watched the oil squirt on number six where his failure occured. Why? It's more than likely he had left the rocker arm cover on instead of 'off' like it should have been. Notice that he didn't state that he saw the oil squirting from each rocker arm (although he probably will now lol) ... only that he primed the pump with a drill ... actually, I even doubt that.
If he did have the cover off AND he had known what he was looking for, he would have seen either one of two things: No oil at all squirting from number six OR reduced oil from number six. If either was the case, a knowledgeable builder would have stopped, investigated, and cured the issue but, alas, a knowledgeable builder FrankZ is not.
FrankZ has asked us to "trust him that all other possibilites but the pump were eliminated". or words to that effect, to wit. I would not trust that at all ... he is either lying or posing ... take your pick.
I have noticed over many years of auto and motorcycle wrenching a tendency to deny culpability and attempt to redirect the blame when it comes to mistakes. Was pretty common in a dealership when a tech screwed something up .... a flaw of human nature, I s'pose. Can't change that.
My point is simply this: It matters NOT what FrankZ knows or doesn't know, did or didn't do. To spread malicious rumors about an excellent product like the Melling HV series of oil pumps is just simply wrong. I don't care what all the other people whom he refers to say either ... it's just hearsay and BS. He should 'man up', take the blame, move forward and learn from it instead of maligning a perfectly good product to make himself look better. That's all I know for now ...
Guess I'll just sit around on pins and needles, biting my nails, waiting for my
HV to fail ... LMAO.
08-28-2009, 06:22 PM
#37
Nothing to see. I added the offending individual to my Ignore list so I don't see anything he posts. Kinda nice.
I do appreciate the emails and PM's, guess I'm not the only person he's warmed up too.
I do appreciate the emails and PM's, guess I'm not the only person he's warmed up too.
08-28-2009, 07:28 PM
#38
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You can ignore me, if ya' want ...
you can even ignore the facts, FrankZ, but that don't change 'em. I notice you're still responding too ... hmmm ..... wonder what that means? Are ya' just peeking outa' the corner of yer eye, or is it that you're worried about your image, eh?
Apparently, FrankZ, you are too busy convincing yourself of your own richeousness to face the truth, aren't you? You are a legend in your own mind. lol Sorry if what I've said has offended you or anyone else ... I have no wish to offend ... but no one has PM'd me yet ... maybe there's a flood of angry ones comming ... dunno, guess we'll have to wait and see ... deal with them then.
In the final analysis it's really not about what you or anyone else thinks is 'popular' or 'unpopular', or who likes or doesn't like what either of us have said .. or even the consensus of this forum. I shouldn't have to remind anyone that this is not a popularity contest ... it's a technical forum, isn't it? So I don't really care who likes my take on your foul-up anyway. That is your problem to deal with ... and it's kinda' obvious to me and anyone with significant auto know-how that you're having a hard time of it. That's your cross to bear ... so whine on, bro', but you'll not receive any sympathy from me.
The bare truth is, FrankZ, that it's just science ... actually just science and process ... both of which it would seem you have much to learn ... geeez ....I sure hope you're not out there charging people for automotive services ..... say, tell me this ... if you put the oil drain plug in and it leaks and it later turns up stripped ... was it the drain plug's or the pan's fault? Quit bein' a baby, FrankZ, man up and move on ..
Apparently, FrankZ, you are too busy convincing yourself of your own richeousness to face the truth, aren't you? You are a legend in your own mind. lol Sorry if what I've said has offended you or anyone else ... I have no wish to offend ... but no one has PM'd me yet ... maybe there's a flood of angry ones comming ... dunno, guess we'll have to wait and see ... deal with them then.
In the final analysis it's really not about what you or anyone else thinks is 'popular' or 'unpopular', or who likes or doesn't like what either of us have said .. or even the consensus of this forum. I shouldn't have to remind anyone that this is not a popularity contest ... it's a technical forum, isn't it? So I don't really care who likes my take on your foul-up anyway. That is your problem to deal with ... and it's kinda' obvious to me and anyone with significant auto know-how that you're having a hard time of it. That's your cross to bear ... so whine on, bro', but you'll not receive any sympathy from me.
The bare truth is, FrankZ, that it's just science ... actually just science and process ... both of which it would seem you have much to learn ... geeez ....I sure hope you're not out there charging people for automotive services ..... say, tell me this ... if you put the oil drain plug in and it leaks and it later turns up stripped ... was it the drain plug's or the pan's fault? Quit bein' a baby, FrankZ, man up and move on ..
08-28-2009, 08:32 PM
#40
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LMAO, 98 ... good answer! ... I see you already knew the riddle. A bit of levity is really nice too ... thx ... keep smilin' and keep the popcorn near the micro ...
05-29-2010, 05:12 PM
#41
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You are wrong. If more oil flowed out closer to the pump, more oil also flowed out farther from the pump. Geez, that's high school physics on planet Earth.
05-29-2010, 11:24 PM
#43
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Word of warning I am ok with this discussion all I ask is please do not make personal attacks and stick to facts. Name calling is childish and not needed to get the point across.
05-30-2010, 10:49 AM
#44
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Melling has much that clears some of the myth and speculation. A Melling HV pump will not pump a 4.0 oil pan dry unless the engine is missing parts.
http://www.mellingengine.com/Portals/5/pdf/pdf_catalog/high-volume-pumps.pdf
http://www.mellingengine.com/Portals/5/pdf/pdf_catalog/pressure-vs-flow.pdf
http://www.mellingengine.com/TechSupport/FAQ.aspx
Find documentation. Annecdotes may be single data points but aren't enough to reach a logical conclusion and can't stand on their own.
http://www.mellingengine.com/Portals/5/pdf/pdf_catalog/high-volume-pumps.pdf
http://www.mellingengine.com/Portals/5/pdf/pdf_catalog/pressure-vs-flow.pdf
http://www.mellingengine.com/TechSupport/FAQ.aspx
