P1694 No CCD message from PCM- Aisin transmission
11-13-2014, 01:03 PM
#16
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It is still throwing the P1694 code and has now added in a P0700. Looks like I need some more trouble shooting.
First thing i am going to do is bring it up to NOT and check the transmission fluid. I should also connect my tail lights back up and see if I have reverse lights. In my quick search of the P0700 code those look to be possible causes.
For now it runs and moves, so that is an improvement over yesterday. It still isn't ready for the safety check and plates, but at least I can move it out of the way to get the snow blower out if I need to
This is what I am getting on the code reader:
*UPDATE*
Transmission fluid is low, not even registering on the dipstick, but I just found out that I have a leaky line and not near the transmission. It is the one that mounts highest on the rad, and it is leaking right at the electric fan. I could be that I traced it wrong, but it goes to the back fitting on the transmission. Shouldn't the outlet line go to the top of the transmission? Also could i just cut out the bad section and replace it with some high pressure line and a couple clamps till I have the money for a new line?
First thing i am going to do is bring it up to NOT and check the transmission fluid. I should also connect my tail lights back up and see if I have reverse lights. In my quick search of the P0700 code those look to be possible causes.
For now it runs and moves, so that is an improvement over yesterday. It still isn't ready for the safety check and plates, but at least I can move it out of the way to get the snow blower out if I need to
This is what I am getting on the code reader:
Stored Codes
P0700 Read Fault Memory of Control Unit ETC HIDE
Conditions For Setting This Code:
* Engine Speed more than 400 RPM * Output shaft speed (rotational) more than 180 RPM
Possible Causes:
Faulty ETC Control Module
P1694 No CCD message from PCM- Aisin transmission
P0700 Read Fault Memory of Control Unit ETC HIDE
Conditions For Setting This Code:
* Engine Speed more than 400 RPM * Output shaft speed (rotational) more than 180 RPM
Possible Causes:
Faulty ETC Control Module
P1694 No CCD message from PCM- Aisin transmission
*UPDATE*
Transmission fluid is low, not even registering on the dipstick, but I just found out that I have a leaky line and not near the transmission. It is the one that mounts highest on the rad, and it is leaking right at the electric fan. I could be that I traced it wrong, but it goes to the back fitting on the transmission. Shouldn't the outlet line go to the top of the transmission? Also could i just cut out the bad section and replace it with some high pressure line and a couple clamps till I have the money for a new line?
Last edited by SG Mason; 11-13-2014 at 01:59 PM.
11-13-2014, 01:56 PM
#17
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Do you have a quality Digital Volt/Ohmmeter?
I'll post up a pinout of your TCM connector pinout you can use for checking the various circuits feeding the TCM.
I'll post up a pinout of your TCM connector pinout you can use for checking the various circuits feeding the TCM.
11-13-2014, 02:28 PM
#18
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Yes I have a digital Volt/Ohm meter, and an analog one i use to use to read OBD1 codes. I don't think that my leads are long enough to reach from the PCM to where the TCM is, unless there is a spot under the hood that it plugs in too.
11-13-2014, 03:15 PM
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*UPDATE*
Transmission fluid is low, not even registering on the dipstick, but I just found out that I have a leaky line and not near the transmission. It is the one that mounts highest on the rad, and it is leaking right at the electric fan. I could be that I traced it wrong, but it goes to the back fitting on the transmission. Shouldn't the outlet line go to the top of the transmission? Also could i just cut out the bad section and replace it with some high pressure line and a couple clamps till I have the money for a new line?
https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f2/gre...e-6558/index4/
Pic shows the routing of the oil cooler lines and lists the respective Dorman part numbers.
Last edited by CCKen; 11-13-2014 at 03:21 PM.
11-13-2014, 03:20 PM
#20
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Here's a method of checking cold trans fluid level.
For hot fluid level you need to drive the Jeep around 15 miles to bring the ATF up to operating temp, then check the level on the dipstick, with the engine idling while in PARK. Fluid should be between the hole in the OK range and MAX.
For hot fluid level you need to drive the Jeep around 15 miles to bring the ATF up to operating temp, then check the level on the dipstick, with the engine idling while in PARK. Fluid should be between the hole in the OK range and MAX.
11-13-2014, 04:55 PM
#21
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The fluid isn't even on the stick in my case
I have about another 3L on hand. I had bought 8L because I wasn't sure just how much I would need to add after the transmission swap. I only took out about maybe 2.5 from the old transmission, but had no idea about the replacement, I also needed to refill the TC. I am not sure how much I will loose when I cut the line to patch it, but I figure I will pick up a couple more just in case I need it.
I have about another 3L on hand. I had bought 8L because I wasn't sure just how much I would need to add after the transmission swap. I only took out about maybe 2.5 from the old transmission, but had no idea about the replacement, I also needed to refill the TC. I am not sure how much I will loose when I cut the line to patch it, but I figure I will pick up a couple more just in case I need it.
11-13-2014, 06:35 PM
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The fluid isn't even on the stick in my case I have about another 3L on hand. I had bought 8L because I wasn't sure just how much I would need to add after the transmission swap. I only took out about maybe 2.5 from the old transmission, but had no idea about the replacement, I also needed to refill the TC. I am not sure how much I will loose when I cut the line to patch it, but I figure I will pick up a couple more just in case I need it.
I have about another 3L on hand. I had bought 8L because I wasn't sure just how much I would need to add after the transmission swap. I only took out about maybe 2.5 from the old transmission, but had no idea about the replacement, I also needed to refill the TC. I am not sure how much I will loose when I cut the line to patch it, but I figure I will pick up a couple more just in case I need it.
11-14-2014, 11:29 AM
#24
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TCM
PCM
I have the FSM, just want to make sure I have the right connectors. Also, why does the TCM connector have 1-13 and 14-26 for the rows of pins? I haven't looked at the actual connector, but the one in the picture only counts 12 per row
11-14-2014, 12:33 PM
#25
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The picture is wrong, not only is the pin count on the picture short a couple pins, but mine is gray.
I was able to test the resistance on the CCD + and CCD -. The CCD- read 0.00 ohms and the CCD+ read 0.01 ohms. According to the diagnostics I found that means that the problem is with the TCM, but if that is the case how did it pick up a P0700 code. Is that not from the TCM as well?
I am so confused
I was able to test the resistance on the CCD + and CCD -. The CCD- read 0.00 ohms and the CCD+ read 0.01 ohms. According to the diagnostics I found that means that the problem is with the TCM, but if that is the case how did it pick up a P0700 code. Is that not from the TCM as well?
I am so confused
11-14-2014, 02:16 PM
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The picture is wrong, not only is the pin count on the picture short a couple pins, but mine is gray.
I was able to test the resistance on the CCD + and CCD -. The CCD- read 0.00 ohms and the CCD+ read 0.01 ohms. According to the diagnostics I found that means that the problem is with the TCM, but if that is the case how did it pick up a P0700 code. Is that not from the TCM as well?
I am so confused
I was able to test the resistance on the CCD + and CCD -. The CCD- read 0.00 ohms and the CCD+ read 0.01 ohms. According to the diagnostics I found that means that the problem is with the TCM, but if that is the case how did it pick up a P0700 code. Is that not from the TCM as well?
I am so confused
Forget reading from the TCM connector to PCM C3 for now. Just as much, if not more, info can be gained by taking readings directly from the TCM connector. Hook C3 back up.
Yes, that TCM body harness connector pinout is confusing, that's why I made the pic below. It identifies each pin in the TCM that's shown in the TCM pin cavity chart.
What the pic shows is a mirror image of the body harness connector, so if you print the pic and hold it up to a light (like a window) you'll see the pin cavity layout of the TCM body harness connector.
You'll be taking resistance readings and voltage readings from the body harness connector.
Start with resistance readings.
Remove the battery negative post connector.
Refer to the pin cavity chart.
Start by confirming that there is a good ground path from G101 to the TCM. Read from pin cav 24 to a bare spot on the dash structure. You should see continuity.
Check the Input and Output Speed Sensors.
Read between pin cavs 1 and 2. You should see around 625-650 Ohms.
Repeat at pin cavs 3 and 4. Same resistance.
Check the CCD Bus.
Read between pin cavs 6 and 7. You should see 60 Ohms.
Solenoids.
Solenoid C (TCC Lock Up solenoid). Read between pin cav 11 and pin cv 24. You should see 11-15 Ohms.
Solenoid A. Pin cav 12 to 24. Again, 11-15 Ohms.
Solenoid B. Pin cav 13 to 24. 11-15 Ohms.
Check the TPS.
Tricky because you'll need three hands, unless you use safety pins as probes in the pin cavities.
Read between pin cavs 16 and 17. Slowly push the gas pedal down. You should see a resistance climb as the TPS approaches WOT.
Brake Switch.
Read from pin cav 23 to 24. You should see continuity. Depress the brake pedal about a 1/4" or so. You should see the continuity broken and see an Open circuit.
End resistance checks
Voltage Checks:
Reconnect the battery. Set your meter to 20 VDC.
CCD Bus.
Turn key to RUN/ON.
Read from pin cav 6 (+) meter probe, to pin cav 24 (-) meter probe. You should see around 2.5 volts.
Pin cav 7 to 24. Same as above, 2.5 volts.
Transmission Range Sensor (NSS).
Key to RUN/ON.
Shift to 3rd gear.
Read from pin cav 9 to 24. You should see battery voltage.
Shift to 1-2.
Read from pin cav 21 to 24. You should read battery voltage.
Shift to "D" Drive.
Read from pin cav 22 to 24. You should see battery voltage.
Voltage inputs.
TPS input.
Key to RUN/ON.
Read from pin cav 17 (+) meter probe to pin cav 16 (-) meter probe.
You should see a low voltage, depress the gas pedal to the floor, you should see a higher voltage (under 5 volts).
Power inputs.
Key to RUN/ON.
Read from pin cav 26 to 24. You should see battery voltage.
Key OFF.
Read from pin cav 25 to 24. Battery voltage.
.
11-14-2014, 02:39 PM
#27
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I wont be able to do this till tomorrow now, the sun is setting already here. To take the CCD resistances I used a thin paperclip at the TCM harness and a normal paperclip at C3. I should have no problem with the TPS, when I was taking the CCD readings I had to twist around so I didn't hit the throttle with my elbow
I should be able to get these all done before noon tomorrow and will post back once I am done.
I still have the original transmission here so if I need any replacement parts I should have them, other than the harnesses they are already in use on the replacement transmission.
I should be able to get these all done before noon tomorrow and will post back once I am done.
I still have the original transmission here so if I need any replacement parts I should have them, other than the harnesses they are already in use on the replacement transmission.
11-15-2014, 07:04 AM
#28
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Late start, and it is cooler than I would like. Good thing Today is mostly taking readings and not trying to hold on to cold metal tool
Just printed up CCKen's instruction and am going to finish this cup of coffee and start working on my contortionist act. Maybe I should put up a curtain and charge people to watch the old guy try take readings off the TCM harness
Just printed up CCKen's instruction and am going to finish this cup of coffee and start working on my contortionist act. Maybe I should put up a curtain and charge people to watch the old guy try take readings off the TCM harness
11-15-2014, 09:06 AM
#29
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Well that took a lot less time than I thought, all it took was a thin paperclip and a pair of jumper wires to make life easy. The hardest part was getting the connector out and finding an angle that would keep the morning sun out of my eyes.
Here are my results, temps here were 32°F and the actual battery voltage was 12.02 VDC
Check the Input and Output Speed Sensors.
Read between pin cavs 1 and 2. You should see around 625-650 Ohms. 557
Repeat at pin cavs 3 and 4. Same resistance. 562
Check the CCD Bus.
Read between pin cavs 6 and 7. You should see 60 Ohms. 62
Solenoids.
Solenoid C (TCC Lock Up solenoid). Read between pin cav 11 and pin cv 24. You should see 11-15 Ohms. 13
Solenoid A. Pin cav 12 to 24. Again, 11-15 Ohms. 13
Solenoid B. Pin cav 13 to 24. 11-15 Ohms. 13
Check the TPS.
Read between pin cavs 16 and 17. Slowly push the gas pedal down. You should see a resistance climb as the TPS approaches WOT. To me this one seemed very flaky, The low was never the same and would slowly drop once it got down to the 860 ohm mark. WOT, pedal to the floor would be in the mid 1300s and the high reading was just past the mid part of the pedal travel and read in the high 1500s-low 1600s
Brake Switch.
Read from pin cav 23 to 24. You should see continuity. Depress the brake pedal about a 1/4" or so. You should see the continuity broken and see an Open circuit. 0-85 ohms, never goes to open through full travel
Voltage Checks:
CCD Bus.
Turn key to RUN/ON.
Read from pin cav 6 (+) meter probe, to pin cav 24 (-) meter probe. You should see around 2.5 volts. 2.44VDC
Pin cav 7 to 24. Same as above, 2.5 volts. 2.46VDC
Transmission Range Sensor (NSS).
Key to RUN/ON.
Shift to 3rd gear.
Read from pin cav 9 to 24. You should see battery voltage. 11.90VDC
Shift to 1-2.
Read from pin cav 21 to 24. You should read battery voltage. 11.90VDC
Shift to "D" Drive.
Read from pin cav 22 to 24. You should see battery voltage. 11.90VDC
Voltage inputs.
TPS input.
Key to RUN/ON.
Read from pin cav 17 (+) meter probe to pin cav 16 (-) meter probe.
You should see a low voltage, depress the gas pedal to the floor, you should see a higher voltage (under 5 volts). 0.87 VDC - 4.03 VDC
Power inputs.
Key to RUN/ON.
Read from pin cav 26 to 24. You should see battery voltage. 11.94 VDC
Key OFF.
Read from pin cav 25 to 24. Battery voltage. 12.19 VDC, but I just took this one and it had warmed up a few degrees
TPS, input output sensors and the brake switch all seem off to me, but I don't know what the acceptable ranges are. Brake lights do work.
Something I never thought to mention till i was taking the readings is that there is a remote start that was put in by someone. It is such a messy install I can't figure out how to disconnect it. Could this be the cause of my problems?
I never thought of it because I don't use it.
Here are my results, temps here were 32°F and the actual battery voltage was 12.02 VDC
Check the Input and Output Speed Sensors.
Read between pin cavs 1 and 2. You should see around 625-650 Ohms. 557
Repeat at pin cavs 3 and 4. Same resistance. 562
Check the CCD Bus.
Read between pin cavs 6 and 7. You should see 60 Ohms. 62
Solenoids.
Solenoid C (TCC Lock Up solenoid). Read between pin cav 11 and pin cv 24. You should see 11-15 Ohms. 13
Solenoid A. Pin cav 12 to 24. Again, 11-15 Ohms. 13
Solenoid B. Pin cav 13 to 24. 11-15 Ohms. 13
Check the TPS.
Read between pin cavs 16 and 17. Slowly push the gas pedal down. You should see a resistance climb as the TPS approaches WOT. To me this one seemed very flaky, The low was never the same and would slowly drop once it got down to the 860 ohm mark. WOT, pedal to the floor would be in the mid 1300s and the high reading was just past the mid part of the pedal travel and read in the high 1500s-low 1600s
Brake Switch.
Read from pin cav 23 to 24. You should see continuity. Depress the brake pedal about a 1/4" or so. You should see the continuity broken and see an Open circuit. 0-85 ohms, never goes to open through full travel
Voltage Checks:
CCD Bus.
Turn key to RUN/ON.
Read from pin cav 6 (+) meter probe, to pin cav 24 (-) meter probe. You should see around 2.5 volts. 2.44VDC
Pin cav 7 to 24. Same as above, 2.5 volts. 2.46VDC
Transmission Range Sensor (NSS).
Key to RUN/ON.
Shift to 3rd gear.
Read from pin cav 9 to 24. You should see battery voltage. 11.90VDC
Shift to 1-2.
Read from pin cav 21 to 24. You should read battery voltage. 11.90VDC
Shift to "D" Drive.
Read from pin cav 22 to 24. You should see battery voltage. 11.90VDC
Voltage inputs.
TPS input.
Key to RUN/ON.
Read from pin cav 17 (+) meter probe to pin cav 16 (-) meter probe.
You should see a low voltage, depress the gas pedal to the floor, you should see a higher voltage (under 5 volts). 0.87 VDC - 4.03 VDC
Power inputs.
Key to RUN/ON.
Read from pin cav 26 to 24. You should see battery voltage. 11.94 VDC
Key OFF.
Read from pin cav 25 to 24. Battery voltage. 12.19 VDC, but I just took this one and it had warmed up a few degrees
TPS, input output sensors and the brake switch all seem off to me, but I don't know what the acceptable ranges are. Brake lights do work.
Something I never thought to mention till i was taking the readings is that there is a remote start that was put in by someone. It is such a messy install I can't figure out how to disconnect it. Could this be the cause of my problems?
I never thought of it because I don't use it.
11-16-2014, 08:05 AM
#30
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Still waiting patiently to hear back from the experts, well maybe not so patiently but I woke up to an inch snow on the ground here and I am still without a road worthy vehicle.
If anyone can interpret the readings I got before I am trying to work in subzero temps and under a foot or two of snow it would be great. I understand that people here are kind enough to offer their advice free of charge and the only compensation they get in the occasional thank you and if they live close enough a beer and a handshake. I just really need to get this thing on the road asap
I also found another problem, a cracked exhaust manifold so I have a couple options there, pull it and replace it, pull it and weld it the best I can, or just try to smear some exhaust cement into the crack and hope it holds till spring. I can get one from a wrecker cheap enough, but if I need other things, like a TCM I would rather just make one trip and not two.
If anyone can interpret the readings I got before I am trying to work in subzero temps and under a foot or two of snow it would be great. I understand that people here are kind enough to offer their advice free of charge and the only compensation they get in the occasional thank you and if they live close enough a beer and a handshake. I just really need to get this thing on the road asap
I also found another problem, a cracked exhaust manifold so I have a couple options there, pull it and replace it, pull it and weld it the best I can, or just try to smear some exhaust cement into the crack and hope it holds till spring. I can get one from a wrecker cheap enough, but if I need other things, like a TCM I would rather just make one trip and not two.