Question about TUPY heads...
02-10-2015 | 10:36 PM
#32
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 952
Likes: 3
Year: 2004
Model: Grand Cherokee
Engine: 2000 4.0
I did, but not thoroughly enough. I had never owned an XJ before but was aware of the overheating/0331 head problem before I started looking for them. I passed on several before buying this one.
The seller listed it as having an engine swap in the last year (a "70k mile take out engine" he called it) and it included a complete but never installed Rough Country 4.5" X series lift. He was asking $5000. He lived more than an hour away so we met at an agreed upon place about half way. I asked him to bring receipts for the engine swap, which he said wouldn't be a problem.
It looked good in person, the lift kit wasn't missing any pieces, the interior looked great, it didn't overheat on the test drive (didn't get on the freeway - my mistake) and the paperwork for the engine swap looked to be in order. I tried to check the engine code on the block, but a badly leaking valve cover gasket and the fading sun light made it impossible to read. I negotiated a price of $3500. You said it has a tuppy head....that means either the engine or the head was replaced. Check the date code on the block and report back.
Literally the last words I said to him before handing him the cash was, "You promise me this thing won't overheat?" To which he said, "I promise." So we exchanged paper and I drove away in the XJ.
I made it about 10 miles on the freeway before the needle in the temp gauge buried itself at 260. It went from 210 to 260 almost instantly. I pulled over as soon as possible and turned it off. I called the seller...he didn't answer...and I knew immediately I had been ripped off. I tried calling him several more times while waiting for the XJ to cool down. Never got an answer. I limped home that night, having to stop once more to let the Jeep cool.
The next day I called the auto recycler listed on the receipt for the engine. I gave them all the info contained on the receipt. None of the info matched their standard invoicing system. The receipt was bogus. I wasn't surprised.
So here I am.
The seller listed it as having an engine swap in the last year (a "70k mile take out engine" he called it) and it included a complete but never installed Rough Country 4.5" X series lift. He was asking $5000. He lived more than an hour away so we met at an agreed upon place about half way. I asked him to bring receipts for the engine swap, which he said wouldn't be a problem.
It looked good in person, the lift kit wasn't missing any pieces, the interior looked great, it didn't overheat on the test drive (didn't get on the freeway - my mistake) and the paperwork for the engine swap looked to be in order. I tried to check the engine code on the block, but a badly leaking valve cover gasket and the fading sun light made it impossible to read. I negotiated a price of $3500. You said it has a tuppy head....that means either the engine or the head was replaced. Check the date code on the block and report back.
Literally the last words I said to him before handing him the cash was, "You promise me this thing won't overheat?" To which he said, "I promise." So we exchanged paper and I drove away in the XJ.
I made it about 10 miles on the freeway before the needle in the temp gauge buried itself at 260. It went from 210 to 260 almost instantly. I pulled over as soon as possible and turned it off. I called the seller...he didn't answer...and I knew immediately I had been ripped off. I tried calling him several more times while waiting for the XJ to cool down. Never got an answer. I limped home that night, having to stop once more to let the Jeep cool.
The next day I called the auto recycler listed on the receipt for the engine. I gave them all the info contained on the receipt. None of the info matched their standard invoicing system. The receipt was bogus. I wasn't surprised.
So here I am.
I feel your pain BUT don't give up hope,not yet anyway. The severely eroded water pump impeller along with sludged coolant was probably the cause of your overheating. You have done a great job cleaning things up so replace the water pump and give her a test drive. Keep an eye on coolant levels (give it time to burp all the air out). If coolant stays in it that is a good sign. If it doesn't check for coolant in the oil. If the jeep is clean and drives well it may be worth fixing.
Last edited by bigbadon; 02-10-2015 at 10:39 PM.
02-10-2015 | 11:34 PM
#33
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
From: Michigan
Year: 1994
Model: Cherokee
I had an hour of free time this afternoon so I continued investigating the cooling system. I found more evidence of the death-cool mix...check this out, lol:
In addition to the slice and dice impeller, the gasket material was almost non-existent...I can't believe it wasn't leaking at all.
In addition to the slice and dice impeller, the gasket material was almost non-existent...I can't believe it wasn't leaking at all.
02-14-2015 | 01:48 PM
#34
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: Forney, TX
Year: 2001
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Hose clamps: I'm always amazed at the number of times I come across a hose clamp with the screw positioned in a manner that makes it almost impossible to remove. I can't understand why people don't take the time to align/position it to maximize access.
02-14-2015 | 01:56 PM
#35
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: Forney, TX
Year: 2001
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
@Nightshade - took a break to grill some burgers and jalapeño poppers, but afterwards I should be ready to do the Cascade trick you and others have suggested. I'll post the results this evening.
02-14-2015 | 03:53 PM
#36
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 641
Likes: 1
From: Anderson, SC
Year: 1999
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
I've seen them so bad where all that's left is the shaft. Run the cascade through it once you replace everything. when I did mine I drove it on the freeway for about 5 miles and I couldn't believe the crud that came out. Make sure when you used DISTILLED water when you refill it if you don't use the premixed coolant.
I don't overheat at all just want to flush.
02-14-2015 | 05:05 PM
#37
Herp Derp Jerp
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 18,251
Likes: 13
From: Parham, ON
Year: 1999
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L OBD-II
Run the cascade & water briefly then flush it out with just water.
02-14-2015 | 07:47 PM
#39
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: Forney, TX
Year: 2001
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Question: what temp does the electric fan kick on? It never kicked on while I was letting it idle (see below).
Ok, I got everything put back together. I ended up replacing the radiator, water pump, thermostat, fan clutch, upper and lower hoses, and the serp belt.
After double checking everything I filled it with distilled water and 4oz of powdered Cascade, but haven't flushed it yet (more on that in a minute). The gas tank is very close to empty, so I didn't drive it. I did, however, let it idle with the heater on for quite awhile...also ran it up to 3000rpm several times. The temp needle never made it to 210...it stopped just shy and stayed there.
While it was running I kept checking the overflow bottle to see how much more of the death-cool mix was still in the system, but the water never got muddy. That might be because I didn't actually drive it, but I'm hoping it's because I caught the problem early enough. I'll find out tomorrow, when I drive, drain, flush, and refill. I decided not to flush tonight because I forgot to buy a replacement overflow bottle, so I cleaned the contaminated one as best I could and re-used it. I'm picking a new one up in the morning.
Ok, I got everything put back together. I ended up replacing the radiator, water pump, thermostat, fan clutch, upper and lower hoses, and the serp belt.
After double checking everything I filled it with distilled water and 4oz of powdered Cascade, but haven't flushed it yet (more on that in a minute). The gas tank is very close to empty, so I didn't drive it. I did, however, let it idle with the heater on for quite awhile...also ran it up to 3000rpm several times. The temp needle never made it to 210...it stopped just shy and stayed there.
While it was running I kept checking the overflow bottle to see how much more of the death-cool mix was still in the system, but the water never got muddy. That might be because I didn't actually drive it, but I'm hoping it's because I caught the problem early enough. I'll find out tomorrow, when I drive, drain, flush, and refill. I decided not to flush tonight because I forgot to buy a replacement overflow bottle, so I cleaned the contaminated one as best I could and re-used it. I'm picking a new one up in the morning.
Last edited by Tex-J; 02-14-2015 at 08:17 PM.
02-14-2015 | 08:14 PM
#40
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: Forney, TX
Year: 2001
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Also, here's a solution I came up with for something that might not even be a problem at all, lol.
Since I began messing with the coolant system on this XJ I never liked how the factory routing of the overflow hose put it VERY close to the mechanical fan. When I was putting everything back together this afternoon I tried a mix of plastic clips and zip ties to secure the hose, but it still didn't sit right with me:
So I dug around in my scrap bins and came up with some 1/2" galvanized EMT and a couple of clips (which had to be bent):
The not-solution:
Since I began messing with the coolant system on this XJ I never liked how the factory routing of the overflow hose put it VERY close to the mechanical fan. When I was putting everything back together this afternoon I tried a mix of plastic clips and zip ties to secure the hose, but it still didn't sit right with me:
So I dug around in my scrap bins and came up with some 1/2" galvanized EMT and a couple of clips (which had to be bent):
The not-solution:
02-14-2015 | 08:22 PM
#41
Banned
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,379
Likes: 17
From: Florida
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee(XJ)
Engine: Golen 4.6L
You're missing a fan shroud. There's a big plastic guard that goes around the fan and makes that hose not a problem. It also helps direct the flow of air for maximum suction through the radiator, but you can live without it. Even so, I think I would keep an eye out at the bone yard for a replacement if it were mine.
02-14-2015 | 08:27 PM
#42
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: Forney, TX
Year: 2001
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
You're missing a fan shroud. There's a big plastic guard that goes around the fan and makes that hose not a problem. It also helps direct the flow of air for maximum suction through the radiator, but you can live without it. Even so, I think I would keep an eye out at the bone yard for a replacement if it were mine.
02-14-2015 | 09:16 PM
#43
Herp Derp Jerp
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 18,251
Likes: 13
From: Parham, ON
Year: 1999
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L OBD-II
OBD-II XJs the aux fan comes on at 218°F. Starting in 2001 the A/C refrigerant pressure has to hit a certain level before it'll be switched on, too... 1999 and prior as soon as you hit the A/C it'd fire up.
02-15-2015 | 05:56 PM
#44
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: Forney, TX
Year: 2001
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
02-15-2015 | 06:19 PM
#45
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: Forney, TX
Year: 2001
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
I drove the XJ about 10 miles this morning to circulate the detergent real well. The temp still never got to 210.
After the drive I let it cool down some before I drained and flushed the system. Everything came out looking good except the heater core. I flushed it separately and the water came out pretty dark. I alternated between flushing through the bottom and top hose to try to break the sludge up.
I switched out the coolant bottle and refilled with a 50/50 mix of green and distilled water. I started it up and let it idle while I kept checking the reservoir to see what was circulating in the system. Looks like I'll be draining and flushing a few more times before it clears up.
After the drive I let it cool down some before I drained and flushed the system. Everything came out looking good except the heater core. I flushed it separately and the water came out pretty dark. I alternated between flushing through the bottom and top hose to try to break the sludge up.
I switched out the coolant bottle and refilled with a 50/50 mix of green and distilled water. I started it up and let it idle while I kept checking the reservoir to see what was circulating in the system. Looks like I'll be draining and flushing a few more times before it clears up.
