RC LIFT HELP
10-31-2009, 11:32 AM
#31
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sv41878 have you not been reading the conversation between me and jeepcomj? we already disgussed every fascet of a 4.5" lift and what is needed and what is not. lol you can use the brake line extension brackets that come in the lift but they will make them weeker BUT if your not wheeling hard like me (in college) then the stocks will hold up. DPA is not neaded till like over 7 inches. stock steering stabalizer is fine. SYE may or may not be needed. i think there is a guy on here with like a 6.5" lift and he hasn't done a SYE yet because he doesn't have any issues. I would do it cause more than likely you will need it. I used the kit from iron rock offroad. people tried to scare me away from using thier refurbished driveshaft so i bought it anyway and it works amazing!! they replaced all u joints. no vibs now!!
Just search for the hack n tap. There was a really good writeup about it on here that i used when i did mine. basically is said when your ready to cut the output shaft to turn on the jeep and put it in reverse then just use your cut off disk like a laith and stick it on the spinning output shaft. i did that and it worked good. i was a little sketched out about it spinning but it wasn't bad once you get going.
Just search for the hack n tap. There was a really good writeup about it on here that i used when i did mine. basically is said when your ready to cut the output shaft to turn on the jeep and put it in reverse then just use your cut off disk like a laith and stick it on the spinning output shaft. i did that and it worked good. i was a little sketched out about it spinning but it wasn't bad once you get going.
10-31-2009, 12:39 PM
#32
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Year: 1998
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I've got a RC 4.5", I'm very happy with it. It's a little stiff - may soften as time rolls on. I don't have a DPA, but I do have an Adjustable track bar and steering stab. I strongly recommend both, I can roll down the highway at 80 straight as an arrow. I think I still have the stock brake lines - by the way my XJ is a 2wd. I'm running 33's but they do rub a bit. mainly a street queen. Definatly get the full leaf pack - I have a sagging add a leaf, soon to be replaced.
10-31-2009, 03:29 PM
#33
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hey sv.
lift the vehicle.
the axle track bar and drag link angles will remain changed EQUALLY to each other. you are raising the body higher off of the axle, and not changing anything in mounting, making them remain equal.
you're not thinking clearly about this...there is no change in steering component mounting points whatsoever, UNLESS you the drop pitman arm. that said, the steering component (drag link, track bar) angles do change. but they don't change enough to be concerned at a mere 6.5".
so you're still wrong sv
oh, btw I have no ASE certifications...that said, I got bumped out of automotive 1 and 2 in high school (years ago), and finished EVERY project in autos 3 in 4 days, then got kicked out when I told the teacher that any mechanic worth his snot knows more than him (which was true). I've not built as many jeeps as you, true...but I have built more than 7 cherokees, more than 10 comanches, and stripped twice that in cherokees, comanches, grand cherokees, and J-trucks.
My father's not ASE certified either...and yet, he's getting paid 75-80k a year to build semi trucks, and he's the go-to man...who taught me everything he knows. He's worked on just about anything you can think of, half of it he taught me on.
lift the vehicle.
the axle track bar and drag link angles will remain changed EQUALLY to each other. you are raising the body higher off of the axle, and not changing anything in mounting, making them remain equal.
you're not thinking clearly about this...there is no change in steering component mounting points whatsoever, UNLESS you the drop pitman arm. that said, the steering component (drag link, track bar) angles do change. but they don't change enough to be concerned at a mere 6.5".
so you're still wrong sv
oh, btw I have no ASE certifications...that said, I got bumped out of automotive 1 and 2 in high school (years ago), and finished EVERY project in autos 3 in 4 days, then got kicked out when I told the teacher that any mechanic worth his snot knows more than him (which was true). I've not built as many jeeps as you, true...but I have built more than 7 cherokees, more than 10 comanches, and stripped twice that in cherokees, comanches, grand cherokees, and J-trucks.
My father's not ASE certified either...and yet, he's getting paid 75-80k a year to build semi trucks, and he's the go-to man...who taught me everything he knows. He's worked on just about anything you can think of, half of it he taught me on.
Last edited by JeepCoMJ; 10-31-2009 at 03:31 PM.
10-31-2009, 03:31 PM
#34
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oh, I never mentioned anything about the steering stabilizer either..
I replace them, no matter whether or not I'm lifting it...don't trust OEM and that's just a personal preference. I'd get rid of any stock stabilizer as fast as I could but it *may* not be necessary
I replace them, no matter whether or not I'm lifting it...don't trust OEM and that's just a personal preference. I'd get rid of any stock stabilizer as fast as I could but it *may* not be necessary
10-31-2009, 04:14 PM
#35
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Your missing the point I tried to make earlier, on a cherokee the front axle is held in the center of the front end by the track bar, as you lift it, the fact that it's fixed on one side doesn't change, but the track bar is only so long, as you lift, it pulls the front axle towards the driver's side. Thus creating the need for a track bar relocation. Steering components are also moved because as the axle moves over, the tie rod end at the passenger's tire is pulled towards the driver's side. If you choose an adjustable track bar in the stock location, it pushes from the frame mount (length from axle mount remains as is). Now everything is pushed down equally and straight, except the pitman arm which is attached to the steering box. This is why you have to loosen the steering sleeve and give it room, angle and length from pitman arm end to drag link connection have changed. When this is done, the tie rod end that is connected to the pitman arm is stressed to an unnatural angle, weakening it. Will 4.5 be enough to break it, not sure, on a heavy duty tie rod end, probably not, if it's stock and got over 100000, hell yeah it will snap like a twig.
Just my opinion, I'm not gonna battle this back and forth, Shepwood can make his own choices since several of us have offered advice.
On a side note, you sound a little too cocky, told your teacher he don't know sh##. What I have learned is from experience, started working on cars when I was 7 because my father, who also worked in semi's and heavy equipment, suffered a neck injury. I was allowed ASE cert for experience, not schooling, which allowed me to pass the tests
.
Just my opinion, I'm not gonna battle this back and forth, Shepwood can make his own choices since several of us have offered advice.
On a side note, you sound a little too cocky, told your teacher he don't know sh##. What I have learned is from experience, started working on cars when I was 7 because my father, who also worked in semi's and heavy equipment, suffered a neck injury. I was allowed ASE cert for experience, not schooling, which allowed me to pass the tests
.
10-31-2009, 05:24 PM
#36
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so what the hell do i need just tell me that lol all i got was longer brake lines, shims , a tcase drop and confused!
10-31-2009, 05:28 PM
#38
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And this is what I meant, bickering about our opinion isn't helping you. Adjustable track bar seems to be something that myself and everyone who has commented can agree upon, I believe an SYE is another agreed upon need, from there, what you get in the lit and what you just said, I say put it in and feel it out. You might get vibes, you might not, from there you can work on it.
Can you trim? I think that 32's could fit with 3 inches and some trimming, then you don't need to change alot. RC makes a good 3 inch kit, but upgrade and get the new leafs and shackles for the rear, I've had trouble with spring sag from the AAL.
Can you trim? I think that 32's could fit with 3 inches and some trimming, then you don't need to change alot. RC makes a good 3 inch kit, but upgrade and get the new leafs and shackles for the rear, I've had trouble with spring sag from the AAL.
Last edited by sv41878; 10-31-2009 at 05:31 PM.
10-31-2009, 05:30 PM
#39
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so ....shims, tcase drop, longer brake lines the adj track bar and if i get vibes sell the tcase drop and shims and get a sye?
10-31-2009, 05:34 PM
#40
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yah i dont want to do a aal i know they are **** and the 3-3.5'' lift id go with that if i dont need half that other extra things i need with the 4.5'' i just want a lifted capable cherokee on 32''
10-31-2009, 06:33 PM
#41
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yeah 3.5 is about all you can do without needing a bunch of extras. I would do that, you might have to trim a little for 32's, but not much. I've got the RC 3 on my 96 right now and my only complaint is the sag the AAL caused in my rear springs. Nothing but what the kit came with has been needed, there was a good link to RC.com on here, check it out. 3 with new rear springs.
10-31-2009, 08:00 PM
#42
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Your missing the point I tried to make earlier, on a cherokee the front axle is held in the center of the front end by the track bar, as you lift it, the fact that it's fixed on one side doesn't change, but the track bar is only so long, as you lift, it pulls the front axle towards the driver's side. Thus creating the need for a track bar relocation. Steering components are also moved because as the axle moves over, the tie rod end at the passenger's tire is pulled towards the driver's side. If you choose an adjustable track bar in the stock location, it pushes from the frame mount (length from axle mount remains as is). Now everything is pushed down equally and straight, except the pitman arm which is attached to the steering box. This is why you have to loosen the steering sleeve and give it room, angle and length from pitman arm end to drag link connection have changed. When this is done, the tie rod end that is connected to the pitman arm is stressed to an unnatural angle, weakening it. Will 4.5 be enough to break it, not sure, on a heavy duty tie rod end, probably not, if it's stock and got over 100000, hell yeah it will snap like a twig.
Just my opinion, I'm not gonna battle this back and forth, Shepwood can make his own choices since several of us have offered advice.
On a side note, you sound a little too cocky, told your teacher he don't know sh##. What I have learned is from experience, started working on cars when I was 7 because my father, who also worked in semi's and heavy equipment, suffered a neck injury. I was allowed ASE cert for experience, not schooling, which allowed me to pass the tests
.
Just my opinion, I'm not gonna battle this back and forth, Shepwood can make his own choices since several of us have offered advice.
On a side note, you sound a little too cocky, told your teacher he don't know sh##. What I have learned is from experience, started working on cars when I was 7 because my father, who also worked in semi's and heavy equipment, suffered a neck injury. I was allowed ASE cert for experience, not schooling, which allowed me to pass the tests
.
umm dude.
with any lift above 3" you NEED a new track bar. some people even consider it @ 2".
when you replace the track bar, after lifting the vehicle, using the stock track bar mounts, your steering is definitely going to be off. have you ever heard of a steering alignment?
when you lift to around 4.5"+ you also want to consider steering upgrades to improve angles. the best upgrade is an OTK (over the knuckle) steering upgrade...which will also set off your track bar to drag link angles...at which point you also should consider making adjustments to the track bar mounts to keep them parallel.
a drop pitman arm at any lift on a coil-sprung jeep should not be considered at anything below 7 or 8". period. the mentality behind pitman arms is to improve steering angles on leaf-sprung vehicles. DPA's are old school, and while many old-school people insist on them, they are misinformed on how geometry affects a linked, coiled vehicle's steering.
sv, your whole basis on justifying the use of a DPA is that when you lift a vehicle, the axle moves to the side (driver's side). I don't think anyone here is considering a lift without some sort of track bar mods/replacement.
that said, the RC kit in question @ the beginning of this thread would require the use of a 1" DPA because they have a track bar drop bracket to incorporate using a stock track bar...and that's just a crappy idea to begin with.
So, maybe I should revise my opinion and say to the O.P. that they should not even consider re-using the factory track bar and that drop-bracket/drop-mount for the factory bar. it's a poor design, it's cheap, it's a bandaid to keep the jeep moving until you can afford a proper track bar.
buy an adjustable track bar and ignore any advice to use a pitman arm. the insistance of use of a DPA is something that the previous generations of lifters think is correct. It is correct...only for the right applications.
btw, I'm 23, been working on vehicles since I could walk, and driving since I could reach the pedals. I'm cocky yes, but I'm no pushover and I won't tell you something technical unless I've checked and rechecked what I know.
10-31-2009, 08:03 PM
#43
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more or less. you'll need to have the pinion angle on the axle set accordingly to the output angle on the t-case when you go SYE. this requires either shims or (mor ideally) cutting off the spring perches and welding new ones on with the proper angles taken into account.
10-31-2009, 08:26 PM
#44
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More or less, what your saying is that your some 23 year old punk who picked up a few good tips from your old man but can't hold your weight. Gotcha. I've got about 15 years on you, don't have the I know everything attitude cuz I don't know everything, but have figured this much out, your one of the punk kids I pull out on friday nights cuz something broke or you just don't know how to drive. Bring your jeep to NY, I'll put you through the test. My buddy has 15 acres of nothing but mud holes and creek (So nice of set up a couple of NE clubs actually rent his property for weekends). I'll get him to let you in with your sub par suspension but any tow out is your responsibility and I promise you will need to be towed.
There is a reason that kits come with parts and recommendations are made when lifting, it's tried and tested. You my friend are one of the cheap skates who tries to cut corners and do sh## cheap. Fork over the extra hundred for the drop down pitman arm when you upgrade the suspension.
BTW you sound just like my little brother who has been working on cars for about 8 years, but swears it's since he could walk. Must be something about the age, cuz he's only 2 years older than you.
There is a reason that kits come with parts and recommendations are made when lifting, it's tried and tested. You my friend are one of the cheap skates who tries to cut corners and do sh## cheap. Fork over the extra hundred for the drop down pitman arm when you upgrade the suspension.
BTW you sound just like my little brother who has been working on cars for about 8 years, but swears it's since he could walk. Must be something about the age, cuz he's only 2 years older than you.
10-31-2009, 08:54 PM
#45
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well, I'll agree to disagree with you about your opinion of me. I'm not the punk kid who gets towed out, I'm the punk kid that does the towing (usually, unless I'm offroad and then once, maybe twice a trip I get stuck).
sure, I'm a dick, but I'm not lying. and cheap? nope. I'm going off of fact and ignoring the INCORRECT recomendation of a $100 part that is not necessary and will actually hurt your jeep's performance than help.
that $100 is better spent upgrading your track bar and mount, adding a steering box brace, or (most ideally) doing an OTK kit on your front axle.
sure, I'm a dick, but I'm not lying. and cheap? nope. I'm going off of fact and ignoring the INCORRECT recomendation of a $100 part that is not necessary and will actually hurt your jeep's performance than help.
that $100 is better spent upgrading your track bar and mount, adding a steering box brace, or (most ideally) doing an OTK kit on your front axle.