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Rebuild engine thoughts
06-12-2020, 08:45 PM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Rebuild engine thoughts
So I have a 2001 sport and it’s currently at the shop. Shop ran some tests and it has low compression and a bad lifter tick, I mean bad. So I was going to go with a remanufactured engine but every company has bad Jeep owner reviews. I can get my engine rebuilt locally for $3500 which is about $1,000 more than buying a remanufactured engine from titan, mappco, jasper any of those places. But I trust this machine shop and he only uses top of the line parts and once it’s put back together he breaks it in at his shop. 1 year 12k warranty. What’s everyone’s thoughts on this? If I have the money is going through a small shop the right way to do it? Or should I order a remanufactured and risk it? I don’t have the time to reassemble an engine or I would get it machined and bring it home to build it. So either rebuild from a local shop or buy a rebuild online and hope for the best? Also I recently bought a Clearwater cylinder head and it has 10 miles on it, that’s another reason I think the online rebuilt is a bad idea since it comes with the 0331 head. I’ve had two quotes for local shops, two over $3k and one at $1800. I don’t trust the guy for $1800 so $3k seems to be the normal for my area.
06-12-2020, 10:06 PM
#2
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Year: 2001
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0L
A 0331 can be bad but a 0331 tupy head is good the tupy head has a heaver casting that doesn't crack like the 2002 and earlier head does . If the local shop is that good and you don't mine paying more for it do it . I hope it all works out good .
06-12-2020, 10:14 PM
#3
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Year: 96
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0
. I can get my engine rebuilt locally for $3500 which is about $1,000 more than buying a remanufactured engine from titan, mappco, jasper any of those places. But I trust this machine shop and he only uses top of the line parts and once it’s put back together he breaks it in at his shop. 1 year 12k warranty. What’s everyone’s thoughts on this?
what does he say to convince you he is worth extra ?...you did mention better quality parts, and a local trusted rebuilder...thats worth $
06-12-2020, 10:33 PM
#4
Senior Member
I think I would go with the local rebuild at a higher cost with a few considerations first. Assuming the local shop has good experience in rebuilding and does careful quality work it is probably the best in the long run.
* Consider getting an oil sample analyzed to help determine the general condition of the engine. Oil analysis performed by a lab such as Blackstone will identify wear metals and likely source. This can give you an idea of the severity of engine issues. It might be useful to know that the engine is a good candidate for rebuild before you go too far with it.
*Consider the overall condition of your Jeep and how long you plan on keeping it. If it is a long term investment and getting money back out is not an issue the higher cost would be less of a factor.
* Does each local shop have the same warranty and does that include labor and not just parts should something go wrong?
* Take a look at each local shop and observe cleanliness and organization. If the shop is clean and orderly the same likely applies to the work they do. Keeping contaminants out of critical engine clearance is very important to long life. Ask how they clean parts and prep mating surfaces such as head to block. There should be no use of abrasives such as bead blasting or abrasive wheels like 3M Roloc bristle discs unless very thorough cleaning, such as ultrasonic cleaning, is done afterwards. If you don’t get clear and specific answers that you like you might consider another shop.
* Make sure you understand what is included in the cost and what it might cost for likely add-on work. As an example if lifter issue is in part due to worn cam lobes you might need a new cam also.
* Consider getting an oil sample analyzed to help determine the general condition of the engine. Oil analysis performed by a lab such as Blackstone will identify wear metals and likely source. This can give you an idea of the severity of engine issues. It might be useful to know that the engine is a good candidate for rebuild before you go too far with it.
*Consider the overall condition of your Jeep and how long you plan on keeping it. If it is a long term investment and getting money back out is not an issue the higher cost would be less of a factor.
* Does each local shop have the same warranty and does that include labor and not just parts should something go wrong?
* Take a look at each local shop and observe cleanliness and organization. If the shop is clean and orderly the same likely applies to the work they do. Keeping contaminants out of critical engine clearance is very important to long life. Ask how they clean parts and prep mating surfaces such as head to block. There should be no use of abrasives such as bead blasting or abrasive wheels like 3M Roloc bristle discs unless very thorough cleaning, such as ultrasonic cleaning, is done afterwards. If you don’t get clear and specific answers that you like you might consider another shop.
* Make sure you understand what is included in the cost and what it might cost for likely add-on work. As an example if lifter issue is in part due to worn cam lobes you might need a new cam also.
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Gebert530 (06-12-2020)
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Gebert530 (06-12-2020)
06-12-2020, 10:59 PM
#6
Junior Member
Thread Starter
I currently have a Clearwater head with 10 miles on it, most online rebuilt engines have the 0331 but not the Tuppy.
06-12-2020, 11:02 PM
#7
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Won’t need to ship it since he is local, total cost for online engine was $2,400-2,800 including shipping, core charge(which I wouldn’t return my engine so I wouldn’t get this back). Shop is charging me $1500 to install the engine, that includes them taking the engine out, giving it to me to give to the machine shop and then bringing it back. That’s all fluids and labor for $1500. He has good reviews online, builds race engines, when I called he started explaining everything he would do without me even asking and when I asked about doing a stroker he talked me out of it. He even told me it would be an extra $1k for a stroker and HE talked me out of it. Any shop that would talk someone out of paying them money is trust worthy in my opinion, means they care more for the customer then making a dime.
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06-12-2020, 11:05 PM
#8
Junior Member
Thread Starter
I think I would go with the local rebuild at a higher cost with a few considerations first. Assuming the local shop has good experience in rebuilding and does careful quality work it is probably the best in the long run.
* Consider getting an oil sample analyzed to help determine the general condition of the engine. Oil analysis performed by a lab such as Blackstone will identify wear metals and likely source. This can give you an idea of the severity of engine issues. It might be useful to know that the engine is a good candidate for rebuild before you go too far with it.
*Consider the overall condition of your Jeep and how long you plan on keeping it. If it is a long term investment and getting money back out is not an issue the higher cost would be less of a factor.
* Does each local shop have the same warranty and does that include labor and not just parts should something go wrong?
* Take a look at each local shop and observe cleanliness and organization. If the shop is clean and orderly the same likely applies to the work they do. Keeping contaminants out of critical engine clearance is very important to long life. Ask how they clean parts and prep mating surfaces such as head to block. There should be no use of abrasives such as bead blasting or abrasive wheels like 3M Roloc bristle discs unless very thorough cleaning, such as ultrasonic cleaning, is done afterwards. If you don’t get clear and specific answers that you like you might consider another shop.
* Make sure you understand what is included in the cost and what it might cost for likely add-on work. As an example if lifter issue is in part due to worn cam lobes you might need a new cam also.
* Consider getting an oil sample analyzed to help determine the general condition of the engine. Oil analysis performed by a lab such as Blackstone will identify wear metals and likely source. This can give you an idea of the severity of engine issues. It might be useful to know that the engine is a good candidate for rebuild before you go too far with it.
*Consider the overall condition of your Jeep and how long you plan on keeping it. If it is a long term investment and getting money back out is not an issue the higher cost would be less of a factor.
* Does each local shop have the same warranty and does that include labor and not just parts should something go wrong?
* Take a look at each local shop and observe cleanliness and organization. If the shop is clean and orderly the same likely applies to the work they do. Keeping contaminants out of critical engine clearance is very important to long life. Ask how they clean parts and prep mating surfaces such as head to block. There should be no use of abrasives such as bead blasting or abrasive wheels like 3M Roloc bristle discs unless very thorough cleaning, such as ultrasonic cleaning, is done afterwards. If you don’t get clear and specific answers that you like you might consider another shop.
* Make sure you understand what is included in the cost and what it might cost for likely add-on work. As an example if lifter issue is in part due to worn cam lobes you might need a new cam also.
06-12-2020, 11:18 PM
#9
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Year: 96
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0
Won’t need to ship it since he is local, total cost for online engine was $2,400-2,800 including shipping, core charge(which I wouldn’t return my engine so I wouldn’t get this back). Shop is charging me $1500 to install the engine, that includes them taking the engine out, giving it to me to give to the machine shop and then bringing it back. That’s all fluids and labor for $1500. .
If he uses better parts, and I felt happy with him, I would probably justify the extra...a bad experience with something like this will last much longer than the extra $1k
ask him whether he would consider install a junkyard motor if it was his XJ..and how much they can be sourced for
06-12-2020, 11:20 PM
#10
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Year: 2001
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0L
So if you have a new head on it already , so are you sure there not a problem with the head that is why you have low compression ?
06-12-2020, 11:23 PM
#11
Junior Member
Thread Starter
So you would be up for ~$2k for a junkyard, $4k for a reman, or $5k for a rebuild ?
If he uses better parts, and I felt happy with him, I would probably justify the extra...a bad experience with something like this will last much longer than the extra $1k
ask him whether he would consider install a junkyard motor if it was his XJ..and how much they can be sourced for
If he uses better parts, and I felt happy with him, I would probably justify the extra...a bad experience with something like this will last much longer than the extra $1k
ask him whether he would consider install a junkyard motor if it was his XJ..and how much they can be sourced for
06-12-2020, 11:26 PM
#12
Junior Member
Thread Starter
no I’m not sure, so here is my dilemma. Mechanic charges $1200 to remove the head and replace lifters. So if at any point he has to remove the head it’s instantly $1200. If the lifters don’t fix the issue or if the head is good and he puts it all back and the compression is still bad then it’s another $1500 for the engine replacement. That’s why I’m just skipping it all and rebuilding the engine. The previous owner did not take care of this thing, no coolant when I bought it, leaking power steering, a lot of bad wires. I doubt the internals of this were taken care of. That’s why I’m skipping paying for anymore trouble shooting and going straight to engine replacement.
06-13-2020, 06:19 AM
#13
Old fart with a wrench
The new head with valves that actually seal put more pressure on worn piston rings and increase the problem with bad compression, resulting in increased oil consumption.
One thing you have to ask yourself, am I planning on keeping this vehicle for another 5 years? If not, in my opinion it's not worth putting a rebuilt motor in it. If you try to sell it, will the buyer believe you rebuilt the motor? Maybe, if you have the paperwork, but even then it's a toss-up. A good mechanic should be able to find a good quality used motor online, then if it's got an 0331 head, you would have a back-up to replace it if necessary. Then later on, after you have driven it a while and worked out the bugs you decide it's worth it, THEN you can invest in another motor. I'm sure you'll need the money to fix other things. It's a Jeep, after all!
As I said, that's my opinion, but you are the one to decide.
The Clearwater head should not need any work if it's only got 10 miles on it. You can check for bent valves by placing it upside down on the bench and filling the chambers with mineral oil or something light and seeing if it leaks out the ports. Take a rubber hammer and "bounce" the valves before doing this to make sure they are closed.
One thing you have to ask yourself, am I planning on keeping this vehicle for another 5 years? If not, in my opinion it's not worth putting a rebuilt motor in it. If you try to sell it, will the buyer believe you rebuilt the motor? Maybe, if you have the paperwork, but even then it's a toss-up. A good mechanic should be able to find a good quality used motor online, then if it's got an 0331 head, you would have a back-up to replace it if necessary. Then later on, after you have driven it a while and worked out the bugs you decide it's worth it, THEN you can invest in another motor. I'm sure you'll need the money to fix other things. It's a Jeep, after all!
As I said, that's my opinion, but you are the one to decide.
The Clearwater head should not need any work if it's only got 10 miles on it. You can check for bent valves by placing it upside down on the bench and filling the chambers with mineral oil or something light and seeing if it leaks out the ports. Take a rubber hammer and "bounce" the valves before doing this to make sure they are closed.
Last edited by dave1123; 06-13-2020 at 06:30 AM.
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Gebert530 (06-13-2020)
06-13-2020, 12:32 PM
#14
CF Veteran
Are you even remotely mechanical. An I6 is fairly easy to rebuild yourself.. you will need an engine stand and a hoist...Harbor Freight or Pep boys usually has the hoist for a bit more than 100 to 125 and the stand should be less... you need a machine shop to bore and hone or just verify integrity of donor block. And to press on the pistons to rods if new. Also press in cam bearings. All the parts can be had for a grand or so...i paid 300 for my donor block and its a fun project...i stroked mine so it cost a bit more....i have built several you can completely dis assemble one in less than 2 hours..its an option if no one has put that bug in your ear.....but then your hooked
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Gebert530 (06-13-2020)
06-13-2020, 12:37 PM
#15
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Are you even remotely mechanical. An I6 is fairly easy to rebuild yourself.. you will need an engine stand and a hoist...Harbor Freight or Pep boys usually has the hoist for a bit more than 100 to 125 and the stand should be less... you need a machine shop to bore and hone or just verify integrity of donor block. And to press on the pistons to rods if new. Also press in cam bearings. All the parts can be had for a grand or so...i paid 300 for my donor block and its a fun project...i stroked mine so it cost a bit more....i have built several you can completely dis assemble one in less than 2 hours..its an option if no one has put that bug in your ear.....but then your hooked