F1Addict

I think I found the problem. My estimation of how much of the seal was shaved off by the block was horribly wrong. When I pulled the old seal... it was bad. I'll post pictures later. On a positive note, the new seal is in with no shaving (got the shoehorn to stay in place for the entire insertion), the bearing cap is RTV'd, oiled, and torqued to 80# and I'm about to tackle the pan. I can let it sit for 5 hours... should that be enough for the RTV to cure? The ambient temperature is 97ºf.

F1Addict

No dice. I replaced everything, being very careful this time. I made sure the shoehorn didn't fall out this time and upper seal went in smoothly, no slivers. Everything went fine, started him up and idled for 15 minutes without a drip. I felt so relieved. I shut it off and heard "plop plop plop". Looked underneath and it was dripping at a rate of one per second onto the cardboard below. fml.

DFlintstone

Sorry man. what a bummer. Your front CCV vent is defenantly free to vent? (not to a plugged up filter). My RM pissed when mine was stopped up. ( I returned the RM and Gasket I'd bought after I figured that out)

I guy a little while back had problems with that little shaving and finished his thread saying the "straw trick" did it. I asked him since I didn't get it and he replied, a drinking straw. Guess you can cut one to work to install a RM.

If the mains are worn enough the crank can be over enough to not meet the lip.

foreveryoung001

I feel for ya. Besides the CCV, have you checked to make sure it is actually your RMS and not something from higher up? I was all prepared to replace the RMS on my daughter's '90 Renix, but tracked it down to the oil filter adapter. Everything was running to the back of the engine. The only thing that saved me, was a post on this forum that said to check that out before going to the trouble of the RMS. Glad I did.

JackJare9455

this makes the hair on the back of my neck stick up.. I replaced my valve cover and oil adapter gasket. The amount of oil residue under my jeep is significantly reduced, although I still have a small wet droplet building up around my drain plug...(not the drain plug leaking, just the lowest point of my pan).

But since I am not noticing any oil loss on the stick and I do not have any spots on the driveway... F*** that...

F1Addict

It was precisely those posts that led me to do everything but the RMS in hopes that would resolve the problem. Last year I replaced the valve cover gasket and oil cap. I also drilled the flutes because Cruiser54 told me to. When I did that I scrubbed the head clean so any leaks would be obvious. It was still dripping and there was oil on the back of the head. so just last month I replaced the entire CCV system, vacuum harness, and oil pan drain plug. As of Friday, the head had remained completely dry and oil-free for over a month yet the oil drip persisted. It had to be the pan gasket or RMS, one is impossible to do without the other and it seemed silly to go through all the trouble of pulling the pan and not replace the RMS on a 25 year-old Jeep with an oil leak.

I had no oil loss, either. I was typically about a 1/2 quart low when I changed the oil every 3000. Now it dumps a quart in my driveway every 5 minutes. I haven't taken a car to a mechanic in 10 years but I'm going to call around tomorrow.

JackJare9455

Me neither. In fact, if it isn't tires, alignment, exhaust installation(welding), or fuel filters( long story, basically I just HATE doing fuel filters, I would rather pay 10 bucks to the tire shop mechanic to knock that out) I do everything myself.

But in this situation, from what you went through, I would say that it's not a bad idea to pass this off to a pro.

Turbo X_J

Might be able to get some info from this:

kjc

That video might help you some, but he left out some important info. Yes, lubricate the seal so it slides in easier, I just used oil. I found the included 'shoe horn' plastic piece worked well.
What he didn't show, (aside from the bottom half of the seal going into the bearing cap) How'd he miss that step??, was, that you need to use a special sealer where the two halves meet. (see pic) I used the suggested loctite 515. It's not silicone, it's kinda runny/sticky, like syrup. It doesn't take much and you need to apply it carefully so as not to get it on the sealing surface of the seal itself (or the crank) I understand your frustration. Take your time. Try to relax. I find that cussing the Jeep and pounding on it with a hammer (somewhere that won't leave marks) helps me to get thru a lot of the tedious maintenance chores these Jeeps seem to demand. Hope this helps!

F1Addict

I've watched that several times in the past and was prepared to use the straw technique if necessary but the seal slipped in easily using the shoehorn. There was obviously some resistance and when I stopped I had to apply moderate force (just with my fingers) to get it going again. I didn't coat the outer edge with dish soap, I just used oil.

Interesting. I've never heard Loctite mentioned. I don't even think my Haynes suggests it but thank you for the info. I have to go get another pan gasket (this will be number 3) so I'll pick up a tube of 515 while I'm there. I feel very confident in the RMS install, I honestly don't think that's where it's leaking. I'm going to check my CCV system to make sure there are no blockages that are creating increased crank case pressure. I'm also going to be calling a few local shops to see what they'll charge me for doing it. This is my fifth time pulling the pan and even though it's a new day, I'm feeling exhausted and a little hopeless.

Here are some pictures from yesterday.

Just a general shot of the hangy-downy bits (yes, I removed the shop towels before I put the pan back on )



This is the first upper RMS I installed, just documenting that it was installed facing the proper direction. I was so careful but after it started leaking I began to doubt myself. I removed it after taking this picture.



And what I discovered is that I had shaved off a lot more than I thought when I installed it. Yikes.



So it was in with the new (again) RMS. I noticed a design difference in the seals, though. Note the block at the end of the seal on the left and not on the right. Both seals were purchased in the last four days and both had identical part numbers. Weird.



I still worry about this. It's the oil pan gasket mating surface on the back of the bearing cap. Is it possible that this is causing the leak? It seems awfully hard and it seems to be slightly concave where it would meet the pan gasket. I don't know, just a thought. I'm not even sure if this seal is available.



I applied RTV to both sides of the little arms before actually installing.

Anyhoo, I'm going to make another attempt today but I'm not optimistic. Thanks again for all the advice, suggestions, and encouragement. It actually does help.

F1Addict

Okay, I checked the CCV and there are no signs of blockage. My air filter is dry and both vacuum and return tubes flow. As I said earlier, I just replaced the entire CCV system last month.

So... I'm pulling the pan. Again.

F1Addict

Well, I know why it was pouring oil. The stupid "U" was pushed into the pan. I could tell it had been tensioned that way because there were clear compression marks on the edge of the gasket where it slipped into the pan. So, I'm in the process of making a jig with alignment pins and an arch so I can RTV and clamp the gasket to the pan before installing. Hopefully that will hold the gasket in place. I'm going to let it cure for 24 hours before I even attempt. Please, please sweet baby Jeepus, let this be the answer.

DFlintstone

Don't know about on the RM, but I've heard of contact cement being used.

Saw something years ago about someone using an arisol contact cement...maybe for a manifold gasket. (presumably on something without alignment pins)

And Cool! We knew you could do it. Now feel free to come over and install a third seal on the outer axle of my disco. I thought I had it well enough. Actually I guess I do, unless I use 4WD.

F1Addict

I'd be more than happy to mail you the in-axle press I made for just such a task. But you have to mail it back.

DFlintstone

Can you post up that thread? I still have the all-thread....just the deal that fits the seal was, I think my problem. Did you see Cruisers? His neghbor machinest made him a sweet one.