Starter can be jumped ONLY when key is 'OFF'; Key 'ON', starter direct jump fails
#1
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
From: Chicago, IL
Year: 1996
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Starter can be jumped ONLY when key is 'OFF'; Key 'ON', starter direct jump fails
Jeep wasn't starting so after some test I replaced battery/terminals. When I turn the key the radio turns off and when I release the key I hear a click.
I've brought the starter in to get tested and starter/solenoid work on the bench.
The interesting part (to me):
TEST ONE
-Key Off
-Battery terminals connected
-Battery ground to starter housing direct
-Battery positive to starter motor positive (directly to lead, not through bolt)
----------------------------
RESULT: The starter motor spins up
TEST TWO
-Key 'On' (not accessory, not held forward at ignition position)
-Battery terminals connected
-Battery ground to starter housing direct
-Battery positive to starter motor positive (directly to lead, not through bolt)
-----------------------------
RESULT: The starter motor does nothing, and the positive terminal lead I am holding (jumper cable connected to starter positive) is smoking and sparking a lot.
NOTES:
• Manual transmission
• Fuses seem fine
• Have checked SOME grounds
What's weird to me is that having the key in the ON position somehow overrides my ability to jump the starter motor directly. This makes me think that somewhere I have a bad ground or am somehow powering my chassis, but I don't know enough to be sure about that.
Does anyone have any ideas?
Thanks, Kevin
I've brought the starter in to get tested and starter/solenoid work on the bench.
The interesting part (to me):
TEST ONE
-Key Off
-Battery terminals connected
-Battery ground to starter housing direct
-Battery positive to starter motor positive (directly to lead, not through bolt)
----------------------------
RESULT: The starter motor spins up
TEST TWO
-Key 'On' (not accessory, not held forward at ignition position)
-Battery terminals connected
-Battery ground to starter housing direct
-Battery positive to starter motor positive (directly to lead, not through bolt)
-----------------------------
RESULT: The starter motor does nothing, and the positive terminal lead I am holding (jumper cable connected to starter positive) is smoking and sparking a lot.
NOTES:
• Manual transmission
• Fuses seem fine
• Have checked SOME grounds
What's weird to me is that having the key in the ON position somehow overrides my ability to jump the starter motor directly. This makes me think that somewhere I have a bad ground or am somehow powering my chassis, but I don't know enough to be sure about that.
Does anyone have any ideas?
Thanks, Kevin
Last edited by kevin__jeep; 01-25-2017 at 09:39 PM.
#2
when i had start trbl with the starter mounted and wired properly i could jump the hot bolt on the starter to the small ignition/start connection. it always cranked.
i might sometime get a click from the start relay but no crank. took the reman starter back for a NEW one.
no more trouble , starts every time
mount and wire normally, then test.
.
i might sometime get a click from the start relay but no crank. took the reman starter back for a NEW one.
no more trouble , starts every time
mount and wire normally, then test.
.
#3
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
From: Chicago, IL
Year: 1996
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
OK, I think I see your point, that it could be bad even though it tests ok? I'll keep that in mind.
Any thoughts on why having the key at 'ON' would stop me being able to jump the starter motor? I described it a bit in the original post.
Before I buy a new starter I want to make sure it's not just a bad ground or something unrelated to the starter itself.
Any thoughts on why having the key at 'ON' would stop me being able to jump the starter motor? I described it a bit in the original post.
Before I buy a new starter I want to make sure it's not just a bad ground or something unrelated to the starter itself.
#4
? on that,,i have no ign sw trouble,,now!
you need to check it for proper output,,??
i think you should be able to jump the starter anytime like i did,the hot wire to the small start connector should crank without the key.even my reman would usually crank that way. thats how i had to start sometime. i could put key in the on/run position and go out and screwdriver jump it and it ran.
i was thinking of adding a jumper and pushbutton but that got crazy! lucky me i got the new for same price,even swap. good store.
starter is grounded when bolted in. check batt neg cables, it should jump crank anytime.
you need to check it for proper output,,??
i think you should be able to jump the starter anytime like i did,the hot wire to the small start connector should crank without the key.even my reman would usually crank that way. thats how i had to start sometime. i could put key in the on/run position and go out and screwdriver jump it and it ran.
i was thinking of adding a jumper and pushbutton but that got crazy! lucky me i got the new for same price,even swap. good store.
starter is grounded when bolted in. check batt neg cables, it should jump crank anytime.
Last edited by nujeepguy; 01-26-2017 at 02:24 AM.
#5
CF Veteran
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,806
Likes: 180
From: syracuse ny
Year: 1997
Model: Grand Cherokee (ZJ)
Engine: 4.0, new lifters valve job with new springs and exhaust valves, preload set with shims
"When I turn the key the radio turns off"
If the headlights also turn off, then you still have a bad battery or bat cable connection problem.
If the headlights also turn off, then you still have a bad battery or bat cable connection problem.
#7
RESULT: The starter motor does nothing, and the positive terminal lead I am holding (jumper cable connected to starter positive) is smoking and sparking a lot.
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#9
CF Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,489
Likes: 19
From: Nor-Cal Coast
Year: 90,84
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0,2.5
Why are you grounding at the starter it's self is a question.
Power to the switch goes through a fusible Link, pretty sure. IN here you might find something helpful
> A BUNCH OF JEEP WIRING DIAGRAMS. (THANK YOU TOM!)> http://oljeep.com/gw/elec/cherokee/edge_cherokee.html
#10
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
From: Chicago, IL
Year: 1996
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Haha because I'm still working out all this mechanic stuff, first car to work on after working on vintage motorcycles. I suppose I tested it that way to rule out a bad vehicle ground causing trouble. Meaning, to test the starter directly without depending on anything other than my own jumped hot and ground.
Thanks for all the answers and help, I got home from work today, cleaned up and reinstalled the starter and the Jeep fired up fine. I suspect I either had a bad ground (doubtful, I barely adjusted the ones I checked) or grease/grime build up was causing troubles with the starter contacts. We'll see though, could be the starter or relay is beginning to fail.
Thanks for all the answers and help, I got home from work today, cleaned up and reinstalled the starter and the Jeep fired up fine. I suspect I either had a bad ground (doubtful, I barely adjusted the ones I checked) or grease/grime build up was causing troubles with the starter contacts. We'll see though, could be the starter or relay is beginning to fail.