xjgerry

I pushed the bolts into the socket over a strip of gorilla tape.......I came by Gerry rigging naturally

DCWinterXJ

Hey buddy I can't be runnin all nibbly bibbly from coil to battery like an animal. I hope you get me meow!

gat

I sent a couple of images to you. I hope that it helps to have them.

DCWinterXJ

Many thanks bro. I wont able to work on the Jeep until Friday/Saturday. But I will surely be referencing your contributions....thanks again!!!!

DCWinterXJ

Well I installed the magical mopar crankshaft position sensor and nothing changed. Constant crank no start. I am gonna dive in to the distributor now and check the ignition pickup and what not. I waited all week for a part I did not need. I suppose it is because I am not good enough at troubleshooting this machine. I will keep trying.

DCWinterXJ

Okay. Well Now I feel dumb. Apparently when I tested the ignition system with the spark checker I didn't fully re plug in the coil. So did that. Started up in one second. Running right now. Love those high powered led flashlights. Unreal. Well we have to figure out where to go from here now. I still have the IOD fuse pulled and now I can't find the fuse. I will have to clean the bench...after that I can look for the drain. But, SHE LIVES! Go Mopar!

DCWinterXJ

Wonderful. I am back to the previous square. Drove great and then I parked her warm...back to not starting. I think it may be the ignition pickup. (camshaft sensor) Someone said they tend to fail when the engine is warm? Maybe I got that wrong. Oh well. More tests

lawsoncl

You thought maybe one of the codes you pulled was the distributor pickup. If you film the dash light blinking when you pull the codes, it's easier to go back and count the flashes. It should throw a code if it's getting signal from the crank but nothing from the cam. Back-tracking a bit, did you rule out the autoshutdown relay by swapping it with another one? I wouldn't suspect it for a consistent hot start issue but it's simple enough to check. For grins, try unplugging the throttle position sensor when it won't start. Also try unplugging the coolant temp sensor. Again easy things you can do to see if they have an effect. It's probably too noisy while cranking, but can you feel or use a poor mans stethoscope to see if the injectors are clicking? Have you pulled a spark plug after a crank but non-start to see if it's wet? If you determine you have fuel injectors going but not spark, I'd suspect a bad coil, ignition module, or possibly the engine computer. You said the mechanic "redid" the pcm already, did he replace it?

I don't suppose you have a pull-it-yourself type junkyard near you? They're a good source for cheap used parts, even if it's just for a temporary swap to troubleshoot. The one near me charges $18 for a computer, and $3 for sensors. Plus it's kinda fun to poke around the yard and see what's there, although a bit sobering when you realize the dark brown stains on the upholstery aren't mud (possible educational moment if you bring a new teen driver with you).

DCWinterXJ

I know I have been posting a lot, but I want everyone to know my results. So I sprayed and cleaned inside the distributor..(QD Electronics spray) and it does not look bad or anything. But I still think I may need a new ignition pickup. After I put it back together it started right up. However As soon as I shut down the engine it won't restart..just crank. But everytime I was in the engine just cleaning and what not...it would start right up...tiime would pass though...perhaps enough to let the engine cool to a certain point. So weird. I feel close. So close.

DCWinterXJ

Thanks Brother those are a lot of good roads to follow. I called it quits for today but tomorrow is a new day. Last day of staycation. I will def be doing your tests! Thanks again for posting! Also I did the ASD relay swap long ago but not recently. And recording flashes with a phone! Awesome idea! The mechanic had strange issues with the cps/distributor. He said he bought a new one that didnt work so he may have put in the older one...but this goes between 2 engines. I messaged him about it. We shall see what he says. I want all new parts in there...but the parts I pulled were not all new...some were, not all.

Editied: For some reason I typed pcm instead of cps/distributor. Two totally different things. My bad. My head was toast.

DCWinterXJ

I dont know as usual. I think I am getting close and I am not. I will do the tests lawson said tomorrow! The engine was cold just now and still would not start. I have one day left to really rip into her...and that is tomorrow. After that it is back to the mechanic. The whole distributor setup seems wrong to me...But we shall see. Not gonna post anymore. If anyone wants to add more suggestions, anything is appreciated. I know the heavy hitters think I am annoying. Whatever. I am learning and can only work on this thing when I have the time. Always short on time. But I will always try anything! Thanks again to all who have posted advice! You are the best!

DCWinterXJ

So I decided to do Lawsonscl's troubleshooting list and went through his tests...After number 3 instead of pulling the plugs I reconnected my fuel pressure gauge. Funny thing...she started right up with the gauge connected. Every time. Even when warm and then back to a restart. SO MIND BLOWN! No way it could be the schrader valve on the fuel rail...no one ever posted that issue..... I happened to have a schrader valve removal and tightening tool which I use for tires. I pulled the gauge and gave the valve a few turns to tighten. Now the jeep starts every time. Warm, cold, whatever. All this crap over a loose schrader valve? Now one thing to note is my mechanic did not put a cap back on it after his tests. Not sure if that would have changed it. Either way.....A Schrader Valve on the fuel rail!! Nobody ever posted anything like that...at least through my research. Starts and runs fine. I got it done in a week ending on the most impossible thought to check. The valve never spit gas but it must have been doing something.... Now I would like to hear your thoughts. She is running great. Nobody mentioned this valve. ever. I was tempted to just keep my gauge connected cause hey at least it was running. So what do you think?
I have a whole new distributor coming...which I don't mind it was kind of ready to replace in my opinion. I lost my mind when I fixed it. so many different roads led to this....well until tomorrow when I see if she starts again. Thanks again and let me know what you think.

gat

I've never heard of that and am not sure why it would cause that behavior. Without leaking that is...

I'm glad that you solved the problem, though.

Red1992XJ

This makes no sense to me, but that's the fun of owning an older Jeep! Congrats on getting it running.

jordan96xj

The only way I can make sense of that conclusion is that because the 96 and older do not have the fuel return line, they don't deal well with air being drawn into the fuel line. During a start attempt, that air can only get out one way, through the injectors. So if fiddling with the fuel rail test port valve did actually help, perhaps when the motor and fuel rail were warm it was allowing air to be drawn into the fuel rail as it cooled. But even this doesn't explain the symptoms very well. Because even after cooling, the air would still be trapped in there. Leading to hard starts, long cranks, etc. Based on the description of the symptoms, it would imply that sometimes air was being drawn in, and sometimes not. Just doesn't seem like a very solid theory. I would be more inclined to think that the pump was picking up air sometimes. Hard to say.

If it fixed it, great. But my guess is that we'll be having this discussion again soon. I hope not.

After I replaced my fuel system (tank, pump, filter, etc). I learned the hard way what a new filter filled with air can do. I was taking my wife off-roading for the first time and we were all dropping down into, and then up out of, a deep mud/water hole. As my front end came up, my trailer hitch dug in and my Jeep died right in the the hole. With the front tires just coming up out of the hole. I had to carry my wife out in about 2 feet of mud. I checked for pressure and spark and all that. Everything checked out. But you could hear high-pressure air escaping during each start attempt. Which I knew was unusual. I checked the fuel rail test port, and what came out was very vapor-ish (mostly air). If I would have just let more of that out, it would have started back up pretty quickly. But I didn't know that at the time. By about the 5th time (and about 45 minutes) of trying, it finally worked the air out and everything was back to normal. I pitched the vehicle up on a steep hill for 10 minutes (running) to make sure it wouldn't happen again. (summary: remaining air in fuel filter was shot up into the fuel line when I went nose-high under heavy fuel demand for the first time after installing the parts, once that air was worked out - it never happened again). I think under normal circumstances the air would have been worked out of the filter gradually, and probably wouldn't have caused a problem. But the specific conditions I was in forced a lot of air, all at once. Sorry for the book.