Thetastycat

oh WHAT a day..............

I believe I found all the grounds, and even re-cleaned all the ones I did the first time, all with degreaser. Started it up - and the problem actually seemed a bit worse than before!! No idea. Decided to check the connections on the alternator and starter, and discovered that the voltage regulator (which may also be the ground? I don't know) on the alternator was only held on by one nut, and the other was fairly loose. Started it up, same deal. Checked the connections on the starter and discovered the positive connection was pretty loose - I thought, once again, THIS is it! Tightened it up - same as before. It's even gotten so bad now that it does this weird thing where it will turn over but not start, then get slower and slower until it finally stops. And then the very next time, fire right up.

HOWEVER

I thought well, I've got this brand new CPS, I might as well throw that in. Got the old one out after buying a bunch of new extensions, and discovered I could actually reach up from the front side and guide the bolts into the holes to get the new one on. WELL WOULDN'T YOU KNOW, I DROPPED THE SECOND ONE INTO THE HOLE IN THE BELLHOUSING THAT IS CONVENIENTLY LOCATED DIRECTLY BELOW THE CPS. I swear I put my hand on every possible surface that bolt could have fallen - nothing. What's weird is I have great hearing but I didn't hear it fall or hit anything. Unfortunately, it's an AX15 so I can't just unscrew an inspection plate.

I figure I have a few options.
1. Set the jeep, the house, and myself on fire. Enough is enough.
2. See if I can rent some type of magnetic camera snake thing (do they even exist?) from O'Reillys and see if I can spot it and get it out - I can see the hole pretty clearly from under the hood.
3. Drop the tranny, which is going to be an EXTRA PITA because I've got an aftermarket crossmember, TC armor, would have to remove the center console to get all the boots out of the way to disconnect the shifter, etc.

I'm thinking 2? Honestly when I realized what had happened, it was a REALLY bad feeling...........................

Roler

Mate!!
When I read that, I was like, fkn kangaroo nuts, please don't tell me you dropped it in. Didn't even get the chance to warn ye!

I'd first make sure you actually DID drop it in thereSo yes, see if you can get a visual. Rent one or buy one of those eBay scope things with a light and maybe even a grasp tool or whatever that's called.

I want this to end good not like this.

Thetastycat

I swear I still can't believe this happened.

Got an endoscope overnight from Amazon, but it's hard to see anything at all - I can get it into the hole, and it has a crappy magnetic attachment and a crappy light, but I can't begin to find the bolt, nevermind get it out. I guess I have no choice but to drop the tranny. Honestly this is so depressing - if I'd just been a little more careful/aware of that bolt it would all be wrapped up by now.

I may start a new thread on this NEW DEVELOPMENT in case anybody has any words of wisdom on the process. Apparently the autos have an inspection panel that you can just unbolt and reach right in there - not so with the 5-speed. Can I do this without having to drain the transmission? I can actually look through the gap between the "inspection plate" and the bellhousing and see what I guess is the flywheel, so seems like I ought to be able to keep it full.

Thanks for your help so far - you've given me a lot of great advice that has certainly made the electrical system better! Who knows, maybe the CPS is the last piece of the puzzle...

Thetastycat

WELL GUESS WHAT





That other thread I opened was the jackpot on this particular issue - thanks to their advice I was able to remove the starter and all the bolts in that faceplate and just BEND it back enough to get the scope and then a coat hanger in there!!! I can't describe the relief I felt when that bolt dropped on out of there. Just incredible.

The so-so news (literally who cares though, I was able to start the Jeep tonight) is that the problem has even gotten a little worse! CPS wasn't the ticket, but at least it's got a new one in it now. Have a look at THIS silliness:


I mean..........WHAT could be causing this? Got all the grounds cleaned up (at least I think I got them all), new starter, new fuel filter, new fuel pump, new CPS.........the guy O'Reillys load-tested the battery and said it was doing fine, and the alternator was good too......maybe I should try to test TPS/MAP? I also cleaned the throttle body and intake manifold and the IAC...there's just not too many things left that I can think of!!

Anyway Roler, you are ABSOLUTELY the man - I'm definitely a lot closer to the solution now than before (and I have some nicely cleaned up grounds, which never hurts!)

97grand4.0

I would look for a fuel injector to be leaking after you shut it off. Put a fuel pressure gauge on her and see if it holds pressure when you cut the engine off. Leaking gas in a cylinder will cause gas to fill it . Whats the word im looking for...water lock? If this is happening, it needs fixing asap before it does in a piston or some rings
Try taking the plugs out and see if it turns over ok, disconnect the injectors when you do it or gas will fly out.

Thetastycat

Ok, I'm an idiot - I've been paying attention to the negative battery lead, and I've got nice new winch leads on the battery, so it escaped my attention that my positive battery lead look like this!!!



So seems like cables are in my future. If that doesn't do it I'll look at the injector situation for sure.

97grand4.0

Looks a bit toasty

lawsoncl

Yeah, pretty that's your problem right there. On the plus side, it makes a nice night light when you crank the engine.

Thetastycat

You know I was wondering why I didn't need my headlights any more

Roler

Just catching up after some nightshifts without internet.
Night light haha

Congrats on the bolt issue! Well done!!

Yep that battery connection is looking a bit iffy for sure

Cant wait for the update once you cleaned up (or replaced) that terminal connection/cable. Fingers crossed. If not the cause, we'll get it. You got the bolt out, the rest is homestretch

PS: I listened to your first video again with better sound, and yes that could be a crappy connection (also at the starter end by the way, assuming the starter itself is healthy). That second video seems even more a power issue (now that you have done the grounds) given everything goes off.

Thetastycat

Roller, you have been such a champ on this - I can't tell you how much I appreciate it! Once I get all the new wires in (hopefully just a few days til they arrive) I'll video the first startup - you'll get to see either the spoils of victory or the depths of despair

Roler

Suspense is almost killing, we will see

Make sure your battery is fully charged 😉

Thetastycat

GENTLEMEN

I have broken my word.

I promised to video the first startup, hoping that together we could celebrate the long-awaited victory over this gremlin. And I did video it. BUT - when the VERY SAME ISSUE, except even a bit worse now, happened again, I just didn't even see the point in posting it. Two decent starts, then the same old same old, starter desperately trying to get it going, but sounding like there was molasses in there, slowing everything down.

So out came the old voltmeter. Battery was 12.6v sitting, 14v running. Exact same readings at the starter. Hmmm.....how much does it drop when starting? Shouldn't be below 10.5v, right? And the starter tested good at O'Reillys. WELL........it dropped to 7 VOLTS EVERY TIME while starting. So - after replacing:

Starter
Fuel Filter
Fuel Pump
CPS
All wiring from battery to starter, alternator, PDC, and all grounds

I finally said ok this HAS to be it. I don't understand how it could start twice just fine and then get all stupid, but frankly I have no other ideas.

Went to O'Reillys, found a battery that was a little bit bigger but would do 650 CCAs, which my Warn 10s required anyway - spend 30 minutes in 27 degrees in flip flops (because I'm just too stupid to have thought it through) moving things around in order to fit this larger battery in, especially with these nice beefy 2-gauge cables everywhere now. FINALLY got it to fit in and went to start it up.

It ROARED to life. In fact, it started with a strength, quickness, and authority unlike ever before. Started 20 times since then and it's been flawless.

SO

I don't know why on earth a battery could be so sporadic - sure seemed more like a grounding issue - but it was indeed the battery. And now, perhaps thanks to the new battery but probably also these nice 2-gauge leads, the windows and door locks work stronger and faster than ever before, and the whole thing just seems stronger all around. Used to be if I'd quickly mash the gas in neutral, it would start to rev and kind of hiccup before continuing up - not any more. It just feels like the whole thing is stronger all around. WELL I SUPPOSE IT SHOULD BE SINCE 98% OF THE THING NOW HAS A WARRANTY FROM O'REILLYS ON IT.

ANYWAY

Thanks to everyone for your help - Roler, you especially were just the man through and through. Can't tell you how much I appreciate all of your time and effort guiding me through this ridiculous exercise. I'm about to go gas it up and go see the puppy that my parents are literally bringing home for the first time right now - their beloved dog of 16 years died two months ago, so this is a great day all around.

AND THANKS TO YOU ALL, I KNOW THIS PIECE OF JUNK WILL START WHEN I GO TO LEAVE!!!!

Any theories as to why the battery could start several times in a row and then get all stupid?? That one's beyond me for sure.......

lawsoncl

The battery could be sulfated and self-discharging, low capacity, and possibly a broken plate. At least your fixed a few obvious problems along the way like the rotten cables.

Thetastycat

Yeah buddy - those positive cables were JUNK, and I'd be shocked if that wasn't the factory fuel pump - and the fuel filter didn't look a minute over 50 years old either! I did have the starter tested and they said it was iffy at best, so no regrets there either. Everything that was replaced has made it stronger, and I probably got a little smarter along the way. I DEFINITELY know how to sneak open the rear plate of the bellhousing now