Unexplained coolant loss, but mechanic says head is fine. Help!
#31
CF Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Groton, MA
Posts: 3,700
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209 Posts
Year: 1995
Model: Cherokee(XJ)
Engine: I6 4.0L
I'm not a pro with engine tear downs, but I'd ask your guy for the compression results and reference that with your oil pressure. If it all checks out, 120-150PSI compression on all six cylinders, 13-30PSI oil pressure at warm idle (at this point I wouldn't let it idle you should have an idea of where the oil pressure was at before/during the crack), your bearings are probably fine.
After all the fluff is removed, a head swap is basically bolt on if you're going with a TUPY head and gasket.
Also:
https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f2/beg...ft-1-a-166226/
After all the fluff is removed, a head swap is basically bolt on if you're going with a TUPY head and gasket.
Also:
https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f2/beg...ft-1-a-166226/
You'll want a good torque wrench (by good I mean accurate and of decent quality - it doesn't have to be a Snap-on, but I'd be leery about an Autozone special or a Harbor Freight cheapo) and a good set of socket extensions and wobbly bits (the u-joint ones) and wrenches. You can get a nice set of long length wrenches at Harbor Freight for like $20. Their solid hand tools, extensions, combo wrenches, etc. are a great value and more than good enough for the average DIY'er.
Visit http://cruiser54.com/?page_id=365 and get the FSM (if you're not familiar - Factory Service Manual - it's what the dealer mechanics use for reference and is like a Haynes/Chilton manual on steroids) for the 00 XJ. Tons of info and all the torque specs/tightening order/diagnostic info you could ever want.
#32
CF Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Groton, MA
Posts: 3,700
Received 236 Likes
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209 Posts
Year: 1995
Model: Cherokee(XJ)
Engine: I6 4.0L
So, an unfortunate update: after driving it around a bit, I looked through the oil fill port and could see antifreeze green specks clear as day.
As far as auto repairs go, the most I've successfully completed is your basic bolt-on stuff: fan clutch and shroud, water pump, thermostat, belts, and hoses here and there. So, let's say I do manage to get everything cleared away to a point where I can unbolt and remove the head. I've learned that the crank bearings would be the first thing I'd need to check as far as additional damage goes. Can any of you think of anything else I should check or do right off the bat? Does a good thread for that (or any other resource) already exist?
Thanks for all the feedback, everyone.
As far as auto repairs go, the most I've successfully completed is your basic bolt-on stuff: fan clutch and shroud, water pump, thermostat, belts, and hoses here and there. So, let's say I do manage to get everything cleared away to a point where I can unbolt and remove the head. I've learned that the crank bearings would be the first thing I'd need to check as far as additional damage goes. Can any of you think of anything else I should check or do right off the bat? Does a good thread for that (or any other resource) already exist?
Thanks for all the feedback, everyone.
Take some pictures of the block once the head is off and there's a lot that folks around here can tell you just by getting a good visual look at the cylinder walls and piston faces.
The 4.0 is a VERY durable engine - the vast majority of folks that experience the head defect need only replace the head. Many have done so and driven many years and many miles without further trouble.
#35
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Hey everyone. Long overdue update.
After the busiest semester of my life, I finally had time to tear down my engine a couple weekends ago. Took a full Saturday and a lot of hand-wringing, but my cousin and I actually managed to pull the original head. We're going back in later today or tomorrow to get everything as clean as we can, and if all goes well we'll reassemble everything sometime this week. I'm installing a new Clearwater head (and new gaskets, obviously).
So, a couple of questions before we proceed:
1. The ports where the push rods go (sorry, I don't know the name) are pretty nasty with oily, sludgy gunk. Aside from sticking my finger or a long, thin stick or something down in there and scraping away as much of that stuff as possible, is there any way to get those spaces clean? I've read the extensive cylinder head replacement thread on this board and followed it closely, including covering the cylinders with two-stroke oil before scraping away the old gasket crud, but I didn't see anything about those ports. If cleaning those ports isn't a concern, should I at least stuff a rag down in them or something to keep more crud from falling in while we brush the top of the block? Some friends have said yes, and others have said not to worry about it because "all that stuff's just going to go to your oil pan anyway."
2. I'm not in the business of adding problems that aren't already there, but while I have this thing torn down, should I replace the freeze plugs? They appear to be fine, but I don't want to have to do this again.
3. Any other critical steps, replacements, etc. any of you would recommend while the engine is torn down?
Thanks for everything along the way. Looking forward to hearing from some of you.
After the busiest semester of my life, I finally had time to tear down my engine a couple weekends ago. Took a full Saturday and a lot of hand-wringing, but my cousin and I actually managed to pull the original head. We're going back in later today or tomorrow to get everything as clean as we can, and if all goes well we'll reassemble everything sometime this week. I'm installing a new Clearwater head (and new gaskets, obviously).
So, a couple of questions before we proceed:
1. The ports where the push rods go (sorry, I don't know the name) are pretty nasty with oily, sludgy gunk. Aside from sticking my finger or a long, thin stick or something down in there and scraping away as much of that stuff as possible, is there any way to get those spaces clean? I've read the extensive cylinder head replacement thread on this board and followed it closely, including covering the cylinders with two-stroke oil before scraping away the old gasket crud, but I didn't see anything about those ports. If cleaning those ports isn't a concern, should I at least stuff a rag down in them or something to keep more crud from falling in while we brush the top of the block? Some friends have said yes, and others have said not to worry about it because "all that stuff's just going to go to your oil pan anyway."
2. I'm not in the business of adding problems that aren't already there, but while I have this thing torn down, should I replace the freeze plugs? They appear to be fine, but I don't want to have to do this again.
3. Any other critical steps, replacements, etc. any of you would recommend while the engine is torn down?
Thanks for everything along the way. Looking forward to hearing from some of you.
Last edited by Tony the Liger; 01-19-2020 at 10:42 AM.
#36
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Crank bearings are the common failure when an engine has run for too long with coolant in the oil. I personally don't believe that in your situation (based on how you've described it) that you have run it too long.
Take some pictures of the block once the head is off and there's a lot that folks around here can tell you just by getting a good visual look at the cylinder walls and piston faces.
The 4.0 is a VERY durable engine - the vast majority of folks that experience the head defect need only replace the head. Many have done so and driven many years and many miles without further trouble.
Take some pictures of the block once the head is off and there's a lot that folks around here can tell you just by getting a good visual look at the cylinder walls and piston faces.
The 4.0 is a VERY durable engine - the vast majority of folks that experience the head defect need only replace the head. Many have done so and driven many years and many miles without further trouble.
#37
Old fart with a wrench
You should keep as much crap out of the oil pan as possible since small particles can lock up an oil pump! You can use a shop vac with a small 1/2" copper water pipe in the end of the hose to pull most of the junk out, using the pipe as a scrapper. If you don't want to mess up your shop vac, you can build one using a piece of 1/8" copper tube, bent into a u-shape and soldered into the side of that 1/2" copper pipe, using your air supply to power it. use a 5/8" heater hose on the discharge end or it will be all over your face!
Of course, pulling the oil pan and cleaning it is the best way to go.
WORD OF CAUTION with that "Clearwater" head! There is a small pipe plug on top next to the valve cover above the #5 cylinder that is for a rear temp sensor. Make sure that plug is sealed and tight! Mine was painted black and I didn't see it. The head started leaking coolant 2 days after installing it! I freaked out!!
Of course, pulling the oil pan and cleaning it is the best way to go.
WORD OF CAUTION with that "Clearwater" head! There is a small pipe plug on top next to the valve cover above the #5 cylinder that is for a rear temp sensor. Make sure that plug is sealed and tight! Mine was painted black and I didn't see it. The head started leaking coolant 2 days after installing it! I freaked out!!
Last edited by dave1123; 01-19-2020 at 10:09 PM.
#38
Junior Member
Thread Starter
You should keep as much crap out of the oil pan as possible since small particles can lock up an oil pump! You can use a shop vac with a small 1/2" copper water pipe in the end of the hose to pull most of the junk out, using the pipe as a scrapper. If you don't want to mess up your shop vac, you can build one using a piece of 1/8" copper tube, bent into a u-shape and soldered into the side of that 1/2" copper pipe, using your air supply to power it. use a 5/8" heater hose on the discharge end or it will be all over your face!
Of course, pulling the oil pan and cleaning it is the best way to go.
Of course, pulling the oil pan and cleaning it is the best way to go.
Good call on the copper pipe. I'll give that a shot.
#39
Old fart with a wrench
Re-read the last post about the pipe plug. I was editing while you were replying.
#40
Junior Member
Thread Starter
WORD OF CAUTION with that "Clearwater" head! There is a small pipe plug on top next to the valve cover above the #5 cylinder that is for a rear temp sensor. Make sure that plug is sealed and tight! Mine was painted black and I didn't see it. The head started leaking coolant 2 days after installing it! I freaked out!!
You said for "a" rear temp sensor and not "the." Does this mean mine may or may not have that sensor? And if there's no sensor, what'd you use to plug/seal the spot on the head?
#41
Old fart with a wrench
It's a small pipe plug that only needs pipe dope or teflon tape to seal. It's there so the head can be used on jeeps that have that rear sensor, like TJ's I've been told. If you only have that sensor, the one by the thermostat needs a 1/2" pipe plug, or maybe it's a 3/4" IDK. "Clearwater" supplies the head with that small plug, but mine was painted over and not tight enough.
Last edited by dave1123; 01-19-2020 at 10:34 PM.
#42
Junior Member
Thread Starter
It's a small pipe plug that only needs pipe dope or teflon tape to seal. It's there so the head can be used on jeeps that have that rear sensor, like TJ's I've been told. If you only have that sensor, the one by the thermostat needs a 1/2" pipe plug, or maybe it's a 3/4" IDK. "Clearwater" supplies the head with that small plug, but mine was painted over and not tight enough.
I'd have never known and would probably have had this thing on Craigslist for parts by next week if I'd gotten it back together and discovered a "leak" from a brand new head.
#43
Old fart with a wrench
Another thing. The front-most head bolt on the driver's side shouldn't be torqued more than 100 ft/lbs. It also needs thread sealer because it's the only bolt that is threaded into the water jacket and lacks the support of metal in the bottom of the hole. I've heard horror stories of block decks that have cracked because of over-torquing that bolt, although I don't necessarily believe that.
#44
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Another thing. The front-most head bolt on the driver's side shouldn't be torqued more than 100 ft/lbs. It also needs thread sealer because it's the only bolt that is threaded into the water jacket and lacks the support of metal in the bottom of the hole. I've heard horror stories of block decks that have cracked because of over-torquing that bolt, although I don't necessarily believe that.
Do you have an opinion on the freeze plugs? Mine look fine, best I can tell, but should I go ahead and replace them with brass while I'm there?
#45
Old fart with a wrench
My opinion? My 2000 WJ 4.0 had 253K miles on it and were fine when I pulled the engine for a cracked piston skirt. If they are not rusty, throw some paint on them. The one to watch is the one on the back of the head, but since your getting a new head, that's kinda moot. There's one behind the flexplate. but that's pretty well protected. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" You'll need your money for other things! LOL!