dave1123

I've been thinking about you visual alignment with the fenders. Is it possible the body is twisted, or the fender bent?

As far as the steering being touchy, that's normal. They tend to have a mind of their own if you're not paying attention. The big difference I've noticed is my GM truck's steering wheel used to spin back toward straight if released in a turn. Jeeps don't seem to do this very easily. I think it has to do with the design of the power assist servo in the box. I thought it was the caster setting, but Jeeps use more caster than GM by about 2 degrees.

In the 50's, Mopar used what they called "Full Time Power Steering." You could take the wheel and give it a flick at any speed and the car would just about roll over trying to turn. Thank God they changed that!

888

The fenders aren't twisted or bent, I don't believe this vehicle has ever been repaired, the paint looks consistent and nothing is wavy. I think it's a matter of the designed curve of the fender from back by the door to up by the grille messing with how I was seeing the wheel from above relative to the fender. The toe seems perfect when measured and everything was just aligned so I have to think it's something in the original bits of suspension bushings that are still left underneath.

I can understand a vehicle having a different feel than others, that's for sure. I've owned 100+ cars and trucks of all kinds and driven everything from old Ford tractors to large dump trucks and this Jeep is bad enough that if it drove this way off the showroom floor, Jeep wouldn't have sold many of them.

I hate to just start throwing parts at it but I'm almost to that point, and I just need to figure out what seems most likely to be wrong so I start throwing there.

dave1123

It's starting to sound like the $3000 "free" Jeep!

888

Hahaha, I didn't know Jeeps were mechanically related to VW Passats. There is no such thing as a "cheap" Passat, either. Free is generally too much to pay for one of those.

We'll see. Once I get insurance on it at the end of the month I can start driving it more and figuring it out. I have a Moog track bar to put on but that seems to be more associated with DW, which is not what I have. It would be nice if it helped, though. The front control arms seem to be the most likely places to start.

I was thinking about the rear end possibly being the problem but Volvo 240's were known for bad rear end bushings and I've driven a few with that curse and it was much more the "4 wheel steering AKA driving on ice" feeling of the rear end getting ready to swap with the front as the rear axle shifted around.

This is different, a tendency for the front end to hyperactively follow the road even though the steering has no play whatsoever both by feel and when turning the steering wheel and watching the front wheel react.

I think the front axle might be shifting like the rear axle did on the Volvo, which is why I come back to the CA's, it appears they are responsible for keeping the axle in location relative to the body.

Temperature and oil pressure have been very solid and consistent on the long ride home and other shorter drives so it seems fine mechanically. Little to no rust anywhere on it, it's not been offroaded or beat on, lots of new parts and the paint is original so it seems worth the effort.

Maybe I need to drink beer and stare at it for a while. That's how I got the starter out of my old Ford tractor recently when it was hung on the flywheel.

dave1123

Talk to her nicely, maybe she'll let you know where it hurts.

Control arm bushings and the track bars are essential for keeping the axles located. The sway bars just control body lean on turns. The steering box is frame mounted so any change in axle location will change where the wheels point.

888

Well, Rock Auto sent me a discount coupon last week so a large box of front control arms showed up yesterday, uppers and lowers. Going to start soaking the bolts down with PB Blaster and read up on the eccentrics I see on the front lowers. Seems like the best place to start.

In the VW world, Bentley service manuals are as good as it gets for suggesting how something might be wired or come apart. What is the equivalent in the Jeep world? Something other than Haynes or Chilton?

Thanks

dave1123

Yeah, well, Chrysler Service Manuals are the best you can get, BUT they are hard covered and published FOR EACH SYSTEM, and the cost is astronomical.

When I bought my 67 Camaro SS, the last page of the owner's manual was a postcard you could send and for $30, you could get the Shop Manual for the car. When my wife bought her 97 Dodge Caravan, I went to the dealer and was told they were written for each system. It seemed to me GM was doing more for their customers than Chrysler.

The eccentrics are for setting the caster and should be set in an alignment shop. You can mark their positions now and reinstall them at the same settings, but you should get an alignment done afterwards. My WJ doesn't have them and I was told they are installed on the first after-production alignment, at an added cost. They only give you about a 2* maximum adjustment. That's why with a radical lift, you need adjustable control arms.

888

I ended up buying a downloadable version of the 'official' Chrysler manual on eBay, it included the Haynes manual on PDF. Still sorting through them. I have those official Chrysler fabled green covered paper copies for my Cummins diesel truck, they came with my 89 and sort of apply to my 92.

I bought my first set of Torx bits when I bought my 89 Dakota and I see Chrysler still loves them, there were T50's on the upper control arms. They eventually came loose without stripping out, do you guys replace them with conventional hex bolts?

My upper control arms only came with the rear bushings installed. I guess I need to buy the axle bushings separately. The lowers came with bushings on both ends, more learning curve.

I've already resigned myself to the fact I'll need another alignment so I'll just replace everything now and get another one.

Time to watch some football.

dave1123

There are two reasons for using torx bolts, security and accessibility. The "Security" reason is because they want to make it tough to remove, and the "Accessibility" reason is wrench clearance. On the rear uppers, they punch a hole thru the frame to get to the bolt. The hole can be smaller by using the torx head.

888

Thanks for the reply once again.

My rear uppers had a conventional hex head bolt on the wheel side where they punched the clearance hole, I'm glad they weren't Torx. They didn't leave much room for tapping that bolt out with the starter being where it is, glad it backed out from the wheel side with a socket, that went fairly well. (Well. except for my 15mm 1/2 drive socket falling down into the void in the frame below that bolt hole. I have all kinds of flexible and rigid magnets and can't even find it via the holes provided. Hopefully, the rattle doesn't drive me crazy).

The plastic connector on the drivers side that attaches that hose to the hole in the front of the LCA broke so I need to find one of those.

Anyway, I have everything back together and finger tight on the uppers with the exception of the front pass side Torx bolt. The UCA hole for that bolt will not line up with the axle so I assume the axle has shifted/rotated, the bolts on that side were a bear to get out as compared to the drivers side.

I'm guessing I'll need to borrow some short rigging straps from work and get my chain hoist out to pull the axle back around and get that hole lined up. Is the cross bracket for the transfer case a good spot to connect to the body? that seems better than the rear axle. I think I recall seeing a youtube video where someone did that to align the axle when replacing the lowers, but I don't recall where the other end of the strap was attached.

Funny that the official service manual doesn't mention anything for the uppers other than to remove the nuts and bolts, R&R the control arms, and reinstall the bolts. Nothing about the axle shifting. Front end is completely in the air as per the manual, I've tried using a jack to move the axle around a little without any luck. It needs different movement than the jack from underneath or pry bars can provide. I don't usually mess with suspension work because it's never as simple as nuts and bolts.

Hope to get the lowers on this week, my insurance kicks in friday. Also will install the track bar, and then get an alignment.

I really hope all this helps with the steering problem but it will address everything that seems most likely to be at fault.

DJeXeCute

I forget what company I purchased my ball joints from but they had a angled zirc fitting on the lower balljoint that you just barely get a grease gun on and they have been fairing very well on and off the road I bought them for $90 with new tie rod ends on ebay

dave1123

I've also been told to lower the car onto it's wheels before tightening the control arm bolts so you don't twist the bushings. You might want to check out that info. I would think jackstands under the axle would give you more room to work, rather than working around the tires.

888

Yes, I've read that everywhere I've found a procedure, but it didn't explain why.

I thought about jackstands under the axle but I also thought that would load the control arms so I went with a series of large wood blocks under the unibody and the front axle hanging freely. Which loads the control arms anyway, now that I think about it. I could take the tires off but they really haven't been in the way, I've been laying underneath and had plenty of room to work, the wood blocks get that front end up pretty high. I tried jacking up the axle to help get the UCA hole realigned, it didn't seem to help, the axle needs to rotate CCW more than lift.

I have some rigging straps now, just need to get them looped to the correct length to fit my hoist and see if I can get the axle to rotate via strap orientation or I have to find a threaded hook to fit that hole in the UCA bracket on the axle.

dave1123

How about sticking a bar thru one of the brackets and jacking it up to twist the axle? I was going to suggest between the lower ball joint and the u-joint.

888

I couldn't find a spot to get enough leverage to make it twist with a bar. The idea for using rigging straps and a ratcheting come along didn't work either because the strap just rode up the triangular section of the front axle weldment and obstructed where the UCA had to locate. The axle never moved.

I ended up lowering the Jeep back down with all weight back on the wheels. That made it tight to get in there but I could see at least part of the holes were aligned, that wasn't the case previously.

I ended up using a tapered punch with a full body OD around the same as the bolt OD to pull the UCA hole in line with the bushing hole and got the bolt started that way on one side. A pry bar got the other side aligned so the bolt passed through, nut is on, so all of the uppers are ready for final torque. It got dark and started to rain so that was it for the night.

So, on to the lowers. I coated the eccentrics on both sides with layout die so I can scribe matchmarks on everything for reassembly. I see some holes on the eccentric washers, those must be to hold them in place when the bolt is tightened?

Given what happened with the axle rotating when the uppers were removed with the front end in the air as per the manual, I was wondering whether I should try to strap the axle in place before removing one of the LCA's. I doubt it would hold tight enough to prevent it from moving and just get in the way.

BTW, the only place I could find to connect a strap was the rear LCA. The transfer case bracket was too close and I was afraid I would crush the brake lines on the rear axle.

The factory manual procedure to just R&R the UCA's and retighten the bolts didn't give a hint of the adventures that would develop. I can't wait to see what the lowers do. And then I have the track bar.