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Head gasket 0331 - what else should I do?

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Old 09-25-2019 | 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by 97grand4.0
x2 on what the others have said. So sorry! I was emotionally invested in helping on this one LOL! Now, my two cents going forward, ..looking backward, ...That thing cracked for a reason, and I think it had to do with the head problem that these are known for in the first place. If you leaked enough coolant through a cracked head to where the coolant got down below the point where the cylinder wall cracked, there you go. Of maybe added water to a dry smoking hot engine and that did it.
So, beware of these years engines...because of the head problem..Thats all I can say.
Now as far as the $600 one, maybe, thats a tough call to make because used is used, .. unless you have some indications that this one is a better bet. I wouldn't rely on a guarantee or warranty, all that means is you're once again stuck pulling and replacing it, they may not cover labor especially if you do it yourself.

By the way, no reason you can't try to haggle a better price either, no harm in trying. Show up with cash and tell him that's all your willing to risk. These guys love cash and most of them love to haggle.
It's been frustrating. Today's frustration: the hoist we bought from HF was returned and they stripped a few bolts. My partner is out cursing in the garage and I hear banging metal on metal as I type.

I agree, it cracked for a reason. We put 20K on the engine, but who knows what the first 130k+ were like. If the multiple washers on a head bolt and mass quantities of RTV on the head gasket are any indication... ugh.

I spoke to the salvage yard about the $600 engine. It's from an '04 Grand Cherokee that was hit on the side towards the rear - the front end didn't take any impact. Also has about 100K on it. I was told that they test any parts they sell before warrantying them. The yard has been in business for 50 years on the east end of Long Island and have good reviews online. Since it's an '04 it should be the TUPY head if I remember correctly. I'm not the best haggler so I might just pay the $600, especially because they've been nice to me and haven't talked to me like I'm an idiot.

We're leaving work early tomorrow to haul out to Southampton and pick it up and haul it home. All the estimates I've seen say I should be able to fit it in the back of my Ford with the seats down - no one has a pickup we can commandeer for the day. Our hope is to drop it in Friday evening and start hooking everything back up over the weekend.
Old 09-25-2019 | 06:11 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by stephanie42
It's been frustrating. Today's frustration: the hoist we bought from HF was returned and they stripped a few bolts. My partner is out cursing in the garage and I hear banging metal on metal as I type.

I agree, it cracked for a reason. We put 20K on the engine, but who knows what the first 130k+ were like. If the multiple washers on a head bolt and mass quantities of RTV on the head gasket are any indication... ugh.

I spoke to the salvage yard about the $600 engine. It's from an '04 Grand Cherokee that was hit on the side towards the rear - the front end didn't take any impact. Also has about 100K on it. I was told that they test any parts they sell before warrantying them. The yard has been in business for 50 years on the east end of Long Island and have good reviews online. Since it's an '04 it should be the TUPY head if I remember correctly. I'm not the best haggler so I might just pay the $600, especially because they've been nice to me and haven't talked to me like I'm an idiot.

We're leaving work early tomorrow to haul out to Southampton and pick it up and haul it home. All the estimates I've seen say I should be able to fit it in the back of my Ford with the seats down - no one has a pickup we can commandeer for the day. Our hope is to drop it in Friday evening and start hooking everything back up over the weekend.
Sounds like you're on the right track with a reputable yard, no, I wouldn't haggle they will likely just say no anyway, if they sell enough of these which it sounds like they do which is also a good sign.
Yes indeed, the conditions you describe are ominous indeed! Multiple washers on a head bolt and goopy sealant on the head gasket? By any chance would that head bolt be close to the crack? If so I would wonder if the PO knew about the crack and thought it was because of an overtorqued head bolt that cracked the cylinder, then tried to change where the threads were in the head with the washers, thinking he would avoid where the crack was, and the goop was extra good luck. I must have missed THAT part in the runup to this. I might have torn the engine down before ordering a head, but hindsight is 20 20. You did well and I like the attitude going forward...."Our hope is to DROP it in...." LOL! Spoken like a true goodwrencher! You get through this and we are going to award you the official ...idk...master old jeep wrench award or something.
Old 09-25-2019 | 06:46 PM
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Yeah, I ordered the head kind of early. I assumed we were dealing with just a head gasket and with the old 0331 head in there, I figured let's get a new head while we're in there. Luckily I should be able to sell it fairly easily and make some of my money back.

Also, the cursing and metal banging on metal sounds from the garage were someone trying to put the wrong size bolt in part of the hoist we bought. I went out there to intercede before anything exploded and helped identify the right bolts. The manual from Harbor Freight just had these rectangles that you had to match the bolts up to, and some of us are too good for instructions lol!
Old 09-27-2019 | 01:54 PM
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So they wouldn’t put the engine in my car because they were worried about damaging my car with their forklift. But they delivered for free and we have an engine! It’s a Tupy and the rocker arms and stuff in there are clean as a whistle! We’re running out to get coffee and some bolts so we can get it on the engine stand (whoops forgot about that) and then get it ready to drop in this weekend.


Old 09-27-2019 | 03:07 PM
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Great! Seems like it should be a low risk engine.

Before installing you might take a quick look at the back of the head and block, the side against the firewall. There should be metal casting core plugs (also called freeze plug) there. The metal plugs are similar to what you see on the engine block manifold side in the photo above. Inspect the metal plugs for signs of leaking and tap on them very gently to verify they are in good condition and not excessively rusted. Just want to make sure none are about to leak. Once the engine is installed some of these plugs are impossible to change without pulling the head or engine. They are probably fine but now is the time to inspect.

There may be some other things to check over while it is easy, such as rear main seal for oil leak. (I know - you want to get this done and over with)
Old 09-27-2019 | 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by third coast
Great! Seems like it should be a low risk engine.

Before installing you might take a quick look at the back of the head and block, the side against the firewall. There should be metal casting core plugs (also called freeze plug) there. The metal plugs are similar to what you see on the engine block manifold side in the photo above. Inspect the metal plugs for signs of leaking and tap on them very gently to verify they are in good condition and not excessively rusted. Just want to make sure none are about to leak. Once the engine is installed some of these plugs are impossible to change without pulling the head or engine. They are probably fine but now is the time to inspect.

There may be some other things to check over while it is easy, such as rear main seal for oil leak. (I know - you want to get this done and over with)

One of the best posts I have seen right here
Old 09-27-2019 | 09:11 PM
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There is nothing quite like that first flash adrenaline rush that shoots up you spline what an engine you gave life to starts up. As it warms and settles down in a nice idle, then the grin appears and starts to grow, and you begin to look like a fool. So be it, you earned it, thru the works of your two (or 4) hands! Resist the urge to rev it up until temperature starts to get normal because many race engines have been ruined by trying to hear the power it's got.

Jessy James, from "Monster Garage" was asking viewers what I wanted to see next and 2 GI's in Iraq wanted to see a hummvee do a wheelstand! He took a specially prepared 254 Chevy and transmission over to their unit's garage to build one after getting military permission and installed them in one day. They filled the engine with oil, then ran out if daylight, so had to stop until morning. He told everybody to NOT start the engine until they had put fluid in the transmission and purged the air out, since the pump was special and the closest one was in his shop in LA. They didn't listen and destroyed the pump! Jessy tried to weld the broken pieces back together but that didn't work, of course. He convinced the General to let him take the project back to LA to fix it, and he did, but couldn't get it back to Iraq, so the guys had to settle for a video! He told them it was theirs when they got home!

Last edited by dave1123; 09-27-2019 at 09:14 PM.
Old 09-28-2019 | 05:57 AM
  #83  
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Proof that the Harbor Freight engine stand really will lift a 4.0.
Old 09-28-2019 | 06:19 AM
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I've made note of those plugs and will check them today. I ran out of light last night. The engine has a bunch of sensors and harnesses and wiring and manifolds still attached - we're working on carefully removing all of that. Our goal is to use as much of the stuff from the old engine (manifolds, wiring, etc) as possible but we want to preserve the stuff we're pulling off the new one just in case. Everything seems clean - no seals or areas where parts meet that I saw show signs of leakage, and I was shocked looking in the valve cover at how pretty the inside is! Never thought I'd say something like that! It looks like this thing was well-maintained, possibly dealer maintained. Harnesses are all intact, that heat shield is on the manifold, all the wiring is still wrapped up in those weird plastic cable cover things too.

Harbor Freight 1000lb engine hoist lifted and held the engine no problem. Harbor Freight 750lb engine stand is supporting the engine no problem. Well, getting it to work was a little bit of a problem. Top two bolts are 3/8", bottom are 10mm and I had to go find some of those. And trying to line it up was a mess until I took a break and did a little Googling - we took the plate off the engine stand, bolted that to the engine, then lined up the plate to the stand. That was MUCH easier. It's also really cool to be able to see the entire engine out on the stand, and we were both able to work on breaking bolts and pulling things off at the same time.
Old 09-28-2019 | 07:46 AM
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Freeze plugs..well, if you go there be careful. Consider just putting rustoleum on them. Replacing them you would have to make a good seal. Never done one yet. All my high mileage mills did not have a problem with those. The one in the back of the head the machine shop did when they did my head.
Old 09-28-2019 | 09:09 AM
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Already noticing things that hopefully won’t be an issue. New engine has a different oil pump assembly with different connections. We’re planning on using as much of the old stuff on the engine as possible anyway. Freeze plugs look good, no sign of leaking.
Old 09-28-2019 | 09:28 AM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by stephanie42
Already noticing things that hopefully won’t be an issue. New engine has a different oil pump assembly with different connections. We’re planning on using as much of the old stuff on the engine as possible anyway. Freeze plugs look good, no sign of leaking.
Well since ur using the whole block oil pump connections shouldn't be an issue? just use the new pump. Freeze plugs are either good or bad, they are there in case ...wait for it...the antifreeze freezes.
Old 09-28-2019 | 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by 97grand4.0
Well since ur using the whole block oil pump connections shouldn't be an issue? just use the new pump. Freeze plugs are either good or bad, they are there in case ...wait for it...the antifreeze freezes.
Junkyard put a hole in the oil pump assembly anyway so off it comes. They also plugged the dipstick thing and bent the brace. So that’s coming off to be replaced too.
Old 09-28-2019 | 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by stephanie42
Junkyard put a hole in the oil pump assembly anyway so off it comes. They also plugged the dipstick thing and bent the brace. So that’s coming off to be replaced too.
Confused because the op is under the oil pan...did they sell it with the pan off?
I think you possibly mean the oil filter adapter or the oil pan itself.

Last edited by 97grand4.0; 09-28-2019 at 10:47 AM.
Old 09-28-2019 | 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by 97grand4.0
Confused because the op is under the oil pan...did they sell it with the pan off?
I think you possibly mean the oil filter adapter or the oil pan itself.
There's a thing on the side of the engine, has a sticker LDI, Inc P/N 53010624AC. I looked it up and it says oil pump drive assembly... the oil pan is on.


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