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As a city dweller, I havent owned a car in over 20 years, but have decided to bite the bullet, buy a cherokee and join the street parking dance lifestyle.
I may have found a pretty clean looking 91 limited and was wondering if im just asking for trouble. I read the So you wanna buy a cherokee faq and it said dont worry about the year, but is that still the case?
Is it taboo to link to the car and get peoples advice on it?
Thanks!
Newbie
Ok, one month update! I can safely say the answer to my title is yes, it is absolutely crazy buying a 30 year old jeep! Crazy scary, frustrating, but also FUN as hell and a what a ride its been!
I finally took possession today of the jeep from the myriad of auto shops she's been hopping to-and-fro from and got to put about thirty miles on 'er on the streets of queens in really heavy rain... Man it tears through the puddles, mud, and goes up on curbs and stuff so smoothly! Im really impressed... but first!
The big question: what'd I pay?:
So far, I spent $4500 on the jeep... $1500 for the headliner (I overpaid about $600ish), $350 for a tuneup and all the oils replaced, $600 for new calipers, etc. in front and new drums in the back... and I still don't have a working booster. But it stops just fine if you have a manly touch. Looks like I'm gonna be in about 8.5k after the booster/detailing/tags/title/taxes/inspections/towing etc... And after the infamous rust thread I started, I am gonna drive about six hours away to a lanolin undercoating specialist with a six week wait list and get their every-nook-and-cranny $650 treatment.
The journey thus far. I got the vehicle in queens - paid cash. The breaks were spitting out dust on the front rims and you could feel metal on metal on the pedal. The pedal was stiff as a board and you could get a cramp sitting at a light holding it so hard. So I called a bunch of places, but no one really knew how to work on these old jeeps. I found a headliner specialist in the meantime and dropped 'er off there for a week. They did an amazing job. They replaced the fabric with a color-identical replacement and they were able to even match the vinyl from the accents on the doors to the visors and it looks factory; I was really impressed. Ill post pics tomorrow as I got home at night. I paid $1450 for the job, which after calling around I could of found a place for maybe $650 for a normal job (including the roof center console etc.) but the place I took it to is a top notch Ferrari/porsche kind of a place, and I probably should have shopped around more.
Anyhow, I drove her directly to a general autorepair shop and had them tune it, check the brakes, change the oil/transmission/transfer oils... but they had no clue how to fix the vacuum issue with the brakes. So I went from queens and limped her over the 59th street bridge to the manhattan jeep dealership. They actually have like a 4+ rating, so I figured id give them a shot and see what their estimate would be. As I pulled in, the jeep greeter in the lot said, "great jeep, I have a 94 in blue!", and he began showing me pics of his jeep on like 32" wheels with 3" lift. After talking to him for like 20 minutes he's like, "so what brings you in", and I said I had an apt to have my brakes looked at, and he's like, "Ohhh, thats the jeep repair shop, this is the dealership, it's up a few blocks..." So I goto the Jeep repair shop on the westside of manhattan and they tell me its gonna be a $300 fee to inspect the vehicle but they will waive it if I get the repair work done.
$1,990 is what they wanted to replace the front calipers/pads/lines etc...
I haven't owned a car in twenty years, but something told me that was crazy high. So I double checked their google score, and that 4+ was for the dealer!, the repair shop had a 1.5 star rating! Ive never even seen anyone get a 1.5 on google for any kind of business! So I paid the $300 bucks and towed it for $250 more back to the wrencher who gave me the oil change and tune up, and showed him the estimate from jeep, and he said he'd replace my front and backs for $600 bucks. I took him up on it and got the car back this afternoon in a huge rain storm!
The brakes work now and they feel buttery, but you still gotta pump it one time and jam on it to stop short, so its not ideal but night and day from when I go it. I drove it from autozone to pepboys to hand wash all day and it never felt unsafe.
Handling wise, it drives amazing until about 45 miles an hour. I've been running in in the power trans and 4wd full time and its super fun peeling out on wet pavement, around tight corners, etc. Tight highway corners are a little scary nearing 45/mph, and I havent had light enough traffic to get over about sixty for long. Side note: The cruise control brings mack memories, ha! Old school where you push a button in on the end of the signal stick and toggle a little switch to resume or accelerate.
The biggest headache so far has been finding mechanics who will work on the pre-odb2 computer/bendix 9 abs brake system. It has weird connections and the three or four places Ive taken it to won't try and work on it. But I think I found a guy, I'll find out next week.
So tonight shes parked in my hood smack dab in the middle of Manhattan's Hellsquare for her first night home! Now the real journey begins. I think im gonna go sit in 'er and idle for a bit!
The OEM hitch is rated at 350 lb tongue weight, 500 lb in a weight-distribution setup, which is impossible w/o a trailer. Draw-Tite rates theirs the same as OEM while Curt gives theirs a 500 lb tongue rating, 600 lb w/ WD. Just as important as the spec-sheet ratings, the load is roughly twice as far out compared to where a normal ball hitch would sit, essentially doubling the load acting on the bolts. (just spit-balling it) As such, at this point in the conversation, the answer to your questions is no. If you're ok with doing some upgrades to get you to a reasonable spot to be able to do so, read on...
Shackle Relocation Brackets (SRBs) that extend over between the frame rail and the hitch would help the situation a ton. You've now added a 1/4" steel plate to the mix, acting directly into the leaf springs, all but eliminating any possibility of the sheetmetal frame rail tearing out. StinkyFab sells "No-Lift" SRBs like this. I have the "Lift" style from another brand that's no longer in business. The next thing to consider would be the sheetmetal's ability to lift the front of the truck in the air, essentially. Stock, no rust, it'll likely hold up to many miles of non-abuse before you start having stress fractures develop seemingly out-of-the-blue in the middle of your sheetmetal. But just like dropping in a V8 or flexing 'er out offroad, the stressing and flexing of the sheetmetal adds up over time, allowing something to work just fine for quite a while before the effects are seen. Frame Stiffeners greatly reduce this issue. You could probably get away with just the rear set and have no body issues, but the middle set are very useful overall. Fronts you could do without unless you plan on adding a winch, ripping 'er out of deep mud holes or installing a high power stroker or V8. Stiffening up the front end with a front hitch, equivalent recovery point mount or beefy bumper really helps the overall feel of the XJ platform.
I'll mention brakes next only because it's a quick discussion. To anyone out there in internet-land, if you haven't already upgraded a 94 and earlier XJ/MJ to a dual-diaphragm brake booster from either a 95-96 XJ or a WJ, you MUST DO IT. It likely ranks as one of the top low-buck, night-and-day-difference modifications in the history of the automobile. Seriously. DO IT !!!
Steering. I can say from personal experience that having "rated load" on the ball makes the front end a bit light. When it's dry out, you likely won't even notice it, but get just the smallest amount of sprinkles no the road and BAM, whole different ball of wax. Getting complacent driving the same route in nice sunny weather about bit my in the butt when navigating the same road while lightly raining. I'm trying to factor in that I also had 3,500 lb behind it, but the simple fact that it got squirrelly is basically my point. It will happen eventually, weather it's heavy rain, a puddle or snow, the risk is there. Stiffening up the rear, either with a stiffer spring pack or helper airbags, is the best way to counter the unloading of the front. Avoid air shocks if you can, but if not, reinforcing or upgrading the upper mounts is a must. Fortunately, Air Lift makes a kit for the XJ. Maybe not the best design, but it will work. PROPER bump-stopping is REQUIRED.
The other thing that contributes to drive-ability is body roll. With that much weight, that high up, flopping around, it's going to push/pull the body around, causing the vehicle to physically turn. Generally relatively minor, it all adds up when you need to make that quick adjustment to keep the shiny side up. The bouncing affect from the weight overhanging the back will make it that much worse. Not the end of the world if you're comfortable with it. If it's your "first time" in a vehicle with solid axles front and rear, let alone one that's quasi-technically overloaded, it can be a white-knuckle experience. A stiffer rear sway bar helps a TON, but the downside is, you need to have the thickest OEM front swaybar to keep the balance "correct". The Crown equivalent is much cheaper than the aftermarket offering and is the same diameter. Stiff nitrogen-charged gas shocks help keep things under control, but not the most comfortable when the road gets really rough. The Bilstein 5100s I'm running are entirely too stiff for an offroad shock, but for towing duty, they are great. A lot of this conversation revolves around how you intend to use it and the paths you'll be traveling. Around here, its a whole lot of high speed limits with lower "limits" posted for the corners, so it'll be a 55 mph zone with a legit 15 mph corner. Or posted as a 35 mph corner and everyone knows you're from out of town, or can't drive, if you slow down because people don't slow down for corners around here. Your paths are likely different...
So long story short, I cannot recommend that you do it with a stock XJ Cherokee if you value it, and your bike. Slap on some parts; Curt Hitch, Brake Booster Upgrade, appropriate SRBs, maybe the Air Lift airbag kit if you really want to do 'er up right, stiffer sway bars front and rear, good shocks on all four corners, PROPER bump-stopping, it's do-able... I built my 94 XJ with all of the above, except air bags, specifically for towing duty; I'd do it with mine. Actually was thinking the other week about doing something like this, but with a lighter bike.
Edit: So after walking away, I realize that the list above is a bit conservative for a minimum recommendation. Curt Hitch w/ appropriate SRBs to take care of the main structural issues and SEND IT !!! If your cahonies aren't big enough, upgrade whatever is giving you trouble. I rebuilt mine all in one shot with a specific dirt driveway in mind. Could I have gotten away with the OEM swaybars and crappy shocks, probably not, but will never know... The brakes, however, MUST HAVE regardless of what you do with your XJ.
Last edited by Jim Malcolm; 11-13-2021 at 09:23 AM.
The OEM hitch is rated at 350 lb tongue weight, 500 lb in a weight-distribution setup, which is impossible w/o a trailer. Draw-Tite rates theirs the same as OEM while Curt gives theirs a 500 lb tongue rating, 600 lb w/ WD. Just as important as the spec-sheet ratings, the load is roughly twice as far out compared to where a normal ball hitch would sit, essentially doubling the load acting on the bolts. (just spit-balling it) As such, at this point in the conversation, the answer to your questions is no. If you're ok with doing some upgrades to get you to a reasonable spot to be able to do so, read on...
Shackle Relocation Brackets (SRBs) that extend over between the frame rail and the hitch would help the situation a ton. You've now added a 1/4" steel plate to the mix, acting directly into the leaf springs, all but eliminating any possibility of the sheetmetal frame rail tearing out. StinkyFab sells "No-Lift" SRBs like this. I have the "Lift" style from another brand that's no longer in business. The next thing to consider would be the sheetmetal's ability to lift the front of the truck in the air, essentially. Stock, no rust, it'll likely hold up to many miles of non-abuse before you start having stress fractures develop seemingly out-of-the-blue in the middle of your sheetmetal. But just like dropping in a V8 or flexing 'er out offroad, the stressing and flexing of the sheetmetal adds up over time, allowing something to work just fine for quite a while before the effects are seen. Frame Stiffeners greatly reduce this issue. You could probably get away with just the rear set and have no body issues, but the middle set are very useful overall. Fronts you could do without unless you plan on adding a winch, ripping 'er out of deep mud holes or installing a high power stroker or V8. Stiffening up the front end with a front hitch, equivalent recovery point mount or beefy bumper really helps the overall feel of the XJ platform.
I'll mention brakes next only because it's a quick discussion. To anyone out there in internet-land, if you haven't already upgraded a 94 and earlier XJ/MJ to a dual-diaphragm brake booster from either a 95-96 XJ or a WJ, you MUST DO IT. It likely ranks as one of the top low-buck, night-and-day-difference modifications in the history of the automobile. Seriously. DO IT !!!
Steering. I can say from personal experience that having "rated load" on the ball makes the front end a bit light. When it's dry out, you likely won't even notice it, but get just the smallest amount of sprinkles no the road and BAM, whole different ball of wax. Getting complacent driving the same route in nice sunny weather about bit my in the butt when navigating the same road while lightly raining. I'm trying to factor in that I also had 3,500 lb behind it, but the simple fact that it got squirrelly is basically my point. It will happen eventually, weather it's heavy rain, a puddle or snow, the risk is there. Stiffening up the rear, either with a stiffer spring pack or helper airbags, is the best way to counter the unloading of the front. Avoid air shocks if you can, but if not, reinforcing or upgrading the upper mounts is a must. Fortunately, Air Lift makes a kit for the XJ. Maybe not the best design, but it will work. PROPER bump-stopping is REQUIRED.
The other thing that contributes to drive-ability is body roll. With that much weight, that high up, flopping around, it's going to push/pull the body around, causing the vehicle to physically turn. Generally relatively minor, it all adds up when you need to make that quick adjustment to keep the shiny side up. The bouncing affect from the weight overhanging the back will make it that much worse. Not the end of the world if you're comfortable with it. If it's your "first time" in a vehicle with solid axles front and rear, let alone one that's quasi-technically overloaded, it can be a white-knuckle experience. A stiffer rear sway bar helps a TON, but the downside is, you need to have the thickest OEM front swaybar to keep the balance "correct". The Crown equivalent is much cheaper than the aftermarket offering and is the same diameter. Stiff nitrogen-charged gas shocks help keep things under control, but not the most comfortable when the road gets really rough. The Bilstein 5100s I'm running are entirely too stiff for an offroad shock, but for towing duty, they are great. A lot of this conversation revolves around how you intend to use it and the paths you'll be traveling. Around here, its a whole lot of high speed limits with lower "limits" posted for the corners, so it'll be a 55 mph zone with a legit 15 mph corner. Or posted as a 35 mph corner and everyone knows you're from out of town, or can't drive, if you slow down because people don't slow down for corners around here. Your paths are likely different...
So long story short, I cannot recommend that you do it with a stock XJ Cherokee if you value it, and your bike. Slap on some parts; Curt Hitch, Brake Booster Upgrade, appropriate SRBs, maybe the Air Lift airbag kit if you really want to do 'er up right, stiffer sway bars front and rear, good shocks on all four corners, PROPER bump-stopping, it's do-able... I built my 94 XJ with all of the above, except air bags, specifically for towing duty; I'd do it with mine. Actually was thinking the other week about doing something like this, but with a lighter bike.
Edit: So after walking away, I realize that the list above is a bit conservative for a minimum recommendation. Curt Hitch w/ appropriate SRBs to take care of the main structural issues and SEND IT !!! If your cahonies aren't big enough, upgrade whatever is giving you trouble. I rebuilt mine all in one shot with a specific dirt driveway in mind. Could I have gotten away with the OEM swaybars and crappy shocks, probably not, but will never know... The brakes, however, MUST HAVE regardless of what you do with your XJ.
Wow, so much good information in your post. Im blown away and very appreciative of the time and effort you put into this!
Ok, gimme a little time to digest this all. I definitely wouldnt consider it now, thanks for that. Im new to cars and the frame stiffeners seem like a great idea, but Im probably going to treat her like a pavement princess til I get a better understanding of off roading.
I definitely want to upgrade the brakes, im having a terrible time finding someone willing to do it though, I've been to the Jeep dealership, and three of the highest rated auto shops around. Apparently there are some mechanics out on long island like Goonies and Evans who could possibly do it, but they are booked for weeks! It feels like getting in early on bitcoin really, eveyone wants one of these guys now! Everywhere I go, people ask me all about it, and when I ordered oem replacement headlights, for the 1991 specically, there was a question and answer reply from thursday, its been on there without any comments for years, on carparts.com, and within 24 hours some other 91 owner and me both buy tail lights, strange!
Anyhow, ill respond more later after I give your post another read as it deserves...
So, like this brake booster, while Oreilys says it wont fit the '91 cherokee, it will? Will the mechanic have to weld/grind/modify anything for it to fit? Mines from California, which apparently have a few different components lay out wise for emissions...
If you look at the top-down image that should come up first at https://www.morris4x4center.com/rugg...parts-910.html , you can see the 1/4" thick spacer between the booster and the white foam gasket. If you could find one from a 95-96 XJ, or make one, all you would need is a brake booster from a 95-96 XJ. The Master Cylinder you have now will work, but the newer style with the plastic reservoir, like the one you linked to, are much nicer. That kit contains nearly all the parts you need.
Changing the MC requires changing the fittings on the ends of the hydraulic tubes that connect to it. You'll need one M12-1.0 and one M10-1.0 bubble flare fittings. I wanted new lines, so I went to the parts store and got brake line extensions with each of the 4 fittings on it. In addition to those two bubble flares, the "proportioning valve" takes 7/16-24 and 1/2-20 inverted flare fittings. Those 7/16-24 fittings aren't the easiest to find, so you may have to reuse yours. 3/16" steel line throughout. Any mechanic worth his salt should be able to take care of that...
This power brake booster and master cylinder kit fits 84-96 Cherokee XJ models w/o ABS brakes.
This is the issue... there was an emerging abs technology coming out back then that got mega recalled because the government forced them to recall it. The dreaded bendix 9... it has a an old electric control system that no one has any more, and the abs pump actually created the vacuum not at the mc/booster location most cherokees have...
im not 100% sure, as im like a month old newb in xj world, but thats what it seems is the deal.
You sure you have that? If you do, the fix is to rip it all out and put those parts in... Even if you have regular ABS, bypassing it is as easy as routing the lines directly from the master cylinder to the "proportioning valve", simply eliminating it from the circuit. Do you have a module between the master cylinder and the proportioning valve?
You sure you have that? If you do, the fix is to rip it all out and put those parts in... Even if you have regular ABS, bypassing it is as easy as routing the lines directly from the master cylinder to the "proportioning valve", simply eliminating it from the circuit. Do you have a module between the master cylinder and the proportioning valve?
Its on the vin equipment list from Jeep, and the check ABS light is on...
yeah, they call it the Delete Bendix 9 to locked 94XJ+, theres an hour and a half walk through on youtube you might enjoy! Its kind of a big snag for a large swath of the 91 specifically. They got recalled hard and I bet if I got a lawyer I could get them to remove it. But anyway, Its like a days work, some grinding, tube extending/shorting kind of thing, its just tedious and like 40 really easy steps... but oh yeah, there are two insanely pressurized tubes to this weird pump that could kill you if you pop it before bleeding the lines like 30 pumps...
Again, I feel kinda weird even relaying all this, because everything I am saying is 100% what I've watched on youtube, read in youtube comments, and other forums, so I could be way off... way off... 8)
Hope your weekend is going as well as mine, I just watched a movie sitting in the passenger seat of my parked jeep in new york city during a thunder storm...
Is it weird to sit in your jeep and watch movies?
Last edited by daberman; 11-13-2021 at 07:01 PM.
Reason: missing word tubes
This xj originally lived near Bear Lake in california, and I guess the owner liked the place enough to put a sticker on it. So I thought I would take her to Bear mountain overlooking where I live, New York City...
Here are some pics... had a blast. The trip was about 100 miles and took 7.5 gallons of gas at $4.999/gal, $38 total, plus $16 bridge toll, for a grand total of $54... Got about 13+ mpg, and was in 4 Full Time, power trans.
11-12-2021, 09:15 PM
