RocketMouse

well that gets hot enough for the wings. lol...

As for the wooden wheels, they had a whole custom fixture for doing them. Was cool to see.

Tbone289

While that is true, rim and wheel have never been synonymous. Any other terminology changes are not pertinent to the point I'm trying to make.

That is incorrect. A rim is part of a wheel. A tire is not.

Here's the definition of wheel.

wheel
(h)wēl/
noun
noun: wheel; plural noun: wheels
: a circular frame of hard material that may be solid, partly solid, or spoked and that is capable of turning on an axle


Here's the definition of tire. See how it says it is placed over the rim of a wheel? It is not part of the wheel. When you buy a wheel, do you get a tire with it? According to your description, you should.

tire
noun
noun: tire; plural noun: tires
1. a ring or band of rubber, either solid or hollow and inflated, or of metal, placed over the rim of a wheel to provide traction, resistance to wear, or other desirable properties.

...and here is the definition of rim:

rim
noun
noun: rim; plural noun: rims
2 a : the outer part of a wheel joined to the hub usually by spokes
b : a removable outer metal band on an automobile wheel to which the tire is attached


I'm not sure what your point is here. Many people ignorant of the facts call a wheel a rim as well, but that doesn't mean they're correct. However, a flexplate and a flywheel are much more similar terms than rim and wheel so, again, I don't really think it's a good comparison. A flexplate is not part of a flywheel, nor is a flywheel part of a flexplate.

Bugout4x4

Agreed, and a better comparison using the flywheel analogy would be the difference between a ring gear and the flywheel. Two different parts of the same assembly deemed as the "flywheel."

firebane

I think in all honest this is just a matter of how one person may see something different but mean the same thing.

For me a wheel is a complete unit that your vehicle rolls on hence "I lost a wheel". Where a rim is what bolts to the car and holds the tire hence when a person says "I got a flat tire". People don't say I got a "flat wheel" or "flat rim.

We are saying exactly the same thing your just interpreting it differently.

Tbone289

That would be a good example!

I don't hear people say "ring gear" and mean "flywheel", do you? But people say "rim" and mean "wheel".

Of course they don't. Most people realize there is a difference between a wheel and a tire. In your example, you could have said "I lost a wheel" OR "I lost a tire" and you would be correct. If the wheel separates from the hub and there is a tire mounted to the wheel, either of those statements is true. However, most people would interpret "I lost a tire" to mean that a tire separated from the wheel.


You said that you can't have a wheel without a tire and a rim. I am saying that is not true, so we're not saying the same thing. You can have a wheel without a tire. It is not a matter of opinion or interpretation.

Those definitions above leave nothing to interpretation. A tire is not part of a wheel. A rim is the part of the wheel the tire mounts to. "Wheel" and "rim" are not synonymous terms. This is what I've been saying all along.

That's all I have to say about that. I will post some pics in a few minutes to show where mud & water get trapped by the late-model XJ steelies.

Tbone289

Most steel wheels are built with the center section welded to the stiffening rib of the rim, which is the section of the rim that has the smallest inner diameter. DISCLAIMER: I'm using the term "stiffening rib" here for lack of a better term. LOL I don't know what the real term is.

Below is a pic of my "Soft-8" style wheels that are constructed this way. There is nowhere for water or mud to be trapped by this design.




Below are pics of the late-model XJ steel wheels that I'm talking about. The difference here is that the outer edge of the center section of this wheel actually forms the outer wall of the rim. It is not welded to the part of the rim that has the smallest inner diameter, so there is a deep "groove" or "pocket" around the rim between the stiffening rib of the rim and the center section of the wheel. It holds enough ice or dried mud at the bottom of the wheel that it will noticeably throw the balance off.







I hope that makes sense. If not, I can put arrows on the pics and try to diagram what I'm talking about. I might also pour some water into the wheel in the area I'm talking about so it's more obvious.

Bugout4x4

May I help with that? That would be termed as the "drop center" of the "Rim" piece. When they moved to tubeless tires they had to figure out how to install a smaller diameter tire bead over a larger diameter rim bead lip. So the "drop center rim", or also wrongfully termed as the "drop center wheel", was invented in order to be able to accomplish this. And of course as you know without the drop center it would be impossible.

Tbone289

Hey, I learned something today! Thanks Bugout, that totally makes sense.

Can you tell what I'm talking about above?

Bugout4x4

Yep, I have been following and understand completely. I think the difference might be common generalized "nickname" usage compared to factual technical terminology. Sometimes it drives me crazy like when someone calls the tire "tread" the "thread". lol It's like... "wait... It's not... oh never mind...". lol

Tbone289

LOL! No, I don't mean do you know what I mean when I'm persnickety about rim vs. wheel terminology. Honestly, I hate going on about stuff like that most times and just give up as well. I guess I was just feeling froggy.

I mean, can you tell where the ice/mud is getting trapped by my pic and description? I really liked those wheels, but I couldn't put up with them being off balance after precipitation and freezing in the winter. That is the only reason I replaced them.

Bugout4x4

Oh absolutely, That is the trade off with steel wheels. If you are lucky the mud and crap will fill that pocket somewhat evenly and not throw it off balance as bad, but then just a chunk falls out and you are hopping all over until you wash the rest out. Alloy don't seem to do that as bad because they don't have the deep pocket to catch crap like that. The steel wheels on my dually don't have a pocket like that but... there is just enough recess on the rim to gather mud like that. Man that's when the rear wheels like try to shake the truck apart. lol

Tbone289

Never. lol

Rain will even fill the pockets in these wheels. That groove is "vertically exposed" between the spokes of the wheels. It rains, fills the groove at bottom of the wheel and you can drive for miles and the water will still be in there. It won't spin out--you basically have to wait for it to evaporate. Then if it freezes you have instant counterweights.

Bugout4x4

Yep, Understood that completely from the start.

RocketMouse

Excellent points...and I think the same way.... What I honestly think is happening here is like what happens in my profession by the untrained novices we serve, is that they use the incorrect terminology for a component.
In this thread's example... someone (standard common consumer)... refers to the "wheel" on their car and to them they mean the entire thing, wheel, tire, etc. as one unit. When those in the business or with more experience know better and refer to the individual components by their correct designation, and not as a single unit.

I've seen this so many times in society that I just let it roll of my back...because you've gotta learn to pick your battles in life, and some are worth fighting...others are not.
I've learned that over the years as an IT admin. I know exactly what everything is...but end users do not... so I take what they describe, and translate it for what they need. And it makes their day easier....and ultimately mine too because I handle it the way I do...because at the end of the day, it's not a battle worth fighting...you just roll with it. (no pun intended lol)

RocketMouse

lol... I know exactly what he's saying.... and I've actually heard people in the South (Georgia, Alabama, Louisiana, etc.) use a term called "Got mud in the tires". referring to having mud get up underneath the wheel's outer rim piece in the back and throw it out of balance.