Hi Guys

There is a big debate going on in the Uk car seen about E10 fuel, do you have it in the USA & if so have you noticed any problems using it?

Stuart

 

Yes we have it here but its complete crap. It cuts down your mpg's by close to 35% and ive noticed that when I run gas laced with the junk my jeep runs terrible. It hates it and it almost seems that it almost misfires on it. In the long run it wont save you money just because its cheaper, its like buying something from china and expecting it to have good quality. Something in that nature, there are vehicles that have FlexFuel engines that can run strait Ethinol but if you look up statistics theres almost no gain. Hope this helps.

 

You are telling me that I could get over 30mpgs if I used 100% gas?

I currently get 20mpg using gas with 10% ethanol. My XJ runs fine and I have not noticed any issues with it.

I am not saying it is great stuff.. but maybe not as bad as XJ99 makes it sound.

 

Where was implying anywhere that if you run strait gas you'll get a giant gain in mpg's????? I said that it will reduce it and it has, I put half a tank of gasoline in the tank with no ethanol and i got 133 miles out of that half a tank. Did the same with ethanol and i only got 117 with mixed highway/in town driving for both situations. Im just saying my cherokee seems to hate it but then agian my valve train isnt in the best condition for my 99 so maybe its different for other people and their cars/trucks/jeeps but thats what ive experienced with mine about 50% of the time.

 

All gas here in Canada has atleast 10% ethanol and my vehicles run fine.

More ethanol will make lower MPGs but please dont become a fear mongerer. Engines running poorly on traces of ethanol is simply untrue.

 

Im just simply posting what ive experienced. Im not becoming a fear mongerer in any way. Im just saying my 99 dosent seem to like ethanol when I run it through the tank.

 

Yeah I realize that. I think BOTH of us need to word our posts more carefully sometimes.

With your post count some may take what you say as complete fact instead of as you said, just your experience.

My comment about fear mongering may have been harsher than required to make my point as well.

 

Agreed. And no its not complete fact at all, just how my jeep acts/runs and what I get out of it. Thats all, nothing more nothing less and its alright. We all make mistakes, I can account for that as well.

 

Ethanol (Alcohol) by nature attracts water, which as we know VERY Well, water does not burn.

Ethanol also "eats" plastic and rubber based materials, think about this: Painters use alcohol based solvents to clean paint, varnish, gum, and resinous substances. Think about how much varnish is built up in the aging XJ fuel system, that ethanol will remove it from whatever it's stuck to and gum up your fuel system, it's especially bad for the carb'd rigs. I had to replace the entire rubber and steel fuel supply system in my '73 wagoneer after it sat for 5 months without being run due to a blown head gasket, when I tried to start it with fresh gas, it wouldn't pull fuel from the tank due to the entire system being plugged solid with the gum that ethanol/water/gasoline turns into over a very short span, I let a perfectly good running generator sit for just over a month with a full tank of E10 gas, and I had to drain the tank, replace the fuel line, and pull the bowl off the carb to remove all the gel that was in it. anywhere there was room for liquid gas to sit, was nothing but gel. The jet was plugged, the float valve was plugged shut, and it was a labor intensive process to get it all out.

E10 is a joke.


ETHANOL DOS AND DON'TS
• Replace pre-1985 fiberglass tanks.
• Replace fuel lines, o-rings and gaskets that aren't built for ethanol.
• Inspect hose clamps and metal fittings in the fuel system for corrosion.
• Refill the fuel tank often to reduce airspace in the tank, which reduces water condensation.
• Install a fuel line water separator to eliminate water that collects in the tank.
Never use a fuel additive that emulsifies water.
Never buy fuel that isn't clear and bright.
Do not use E10 contaminated with water without a combustion-enhancing additive.
Do not leave a near-empty fuel tank sitting for long periods of time.

 

It's basically a sop to corn farmers. It runs fine in "newer" cars. Some older vehicles can end up with fuel system problems because the lines are not compatible with the ethanol. IIRC, most cars that were build back then noted in the user manual whether they were safe for ethanol or not.

Efficiency-wise, Gasoline has an energy density of 45mJ/kg. Ethanol has an energy density of 26mJ/kg.

.9(45)+.1(26) = 43.1mJ/kg

45-43.1 = 1.9

(1.9/45)*100 = 4.2%

So, for E10, you can expect about a 4.2% reduction in economy compared to straight gas - Assuming every other variable is held constant.

 

Right there....(see above). You specifically said close to 35%. If you have just left it at "It cuts down your mpg's" I would have agreed with you. But since you specifically threw out a percentage I had to use it.

This sounds more of what I would expect, which would really only work out to about a mile per gallon.

 

Apart from the fuel efficeny issue there is also the production issue. I read some where that for every 3 gallons used to make ethonal only 5 comes back. meaning a 2 gallon profit. I could be wrong, I read the article a while ago. But i know for a fact our ethonal in corn is not nearly as effecient as a South American country who uses sugar can. Which is why it isn't very popular, apart from combustion effeciency.

 

I heard that they also want to bump the ethanol to 15%. Which should reek move havoc on carborated motors,dry out your engine gaskets, and lower your MPGs.

 

Wow I never realised there was all this to know about fuel - i have just been using normal diesal - this thread is really interesting

 

While I see no real reason for it, I have noticed a strong correlation between running gas with alcohol in it and having the idle air control valve clog. The passages are alway gummy and sticky on the Jeeps that come to me when running lots of ethanol laced fuel. Normally the deposits are dry and flaky and don't make the valve stick.

However since the fuel does not flow through the throttle body on an injected engine I see no reason why this relationship should exist. Just an empirical observation.

Mike