Mike1998XJ

Thanks
Do I need that same vintage 1/2 ton running gear? Or is there newer stuff that would work? I found out these axels weigh between 500-600# each. I'd need to box the rest of the frame beyond what I've already done then put an LS-1 engine like that other guy posted last week!
Otherwise I'd be the slowest guy out there! I guess these are not the ones for me... Endless Mtn Fab gave me the rundown on these also. He's thinking these would be nice on a 70's Bronco, or Blazer, or International. Heck maybe I could find another older Landcruiser. I had a 1974 and 1976, those were bullet proof. Too bad they rusted away! Maybe something like that with a full frame... I suppose you guys are right... This won't work for me... Of course if I can get the whole truck for $1200.... then why not!
Mike

whowey

Yes... Where I used to live we had a 78 F-250 as a brush unit with a 150 gallon water tank in the back. With the 4-speed. I believe the tranny was an SM-435, but it has been a number of years. It was equipped with D-44HD in the front and D-60 in the back, with 4.88 gears. You could walk faster in first gear.. and it topped out at about 45 mph.

Mike1998XJ

Whowey:
Let me ask you this...If it was your $1000-$1500 bucks what would you do? Would you buy it and use the axels on your Cherokee? My Son is going back next week to measure the front axel and take pics of it, so we'll know what it is for sure.
Thanks
Mike

EndlessMtnFab

That trans would be a GM unit.


Ford used the Borg Warner trans. I believe they were still using the T-18 at that point (later superceded by the T19).



Either way .. amazing truck.



Joe

whowey

Probably not..unless I had buyers for the rest of the truck.

Until the last few years volunteer FD equipment didn't have many miles/hours, but were BRUTALLY treated. These things sat for weeks or months at a time than were pounded on mercilessly for brief periods, then left to sit again. They maybe, sorta got maintence a couple of times a year if they were really lucky. It wasn't until Sept. 11th, that the government money started flwoing into these departments and agencies allowing them more regular equipment maintence and care.

And depending on where it is from brush rigs were some of the worst treated vehicles. In my area(rural midwest) we don't normally have brush or field fires in the summer or winter. Only in the spring and fall and normally most of them occur in the fall. So for 9 months a brush truck would sit mostly unused, or maybe fired up once a week to be moved out of the way.

EndlessMtnFab

As for my logic on the axles ....



Mike has already stated that he doesn't plan on anything larger than 35s. A well built D44 can handle 35s all day long ... so I don't see the need to justify the extra weight, cost, or effort for a Dana 60 front.


The D60 rear isn't much heavier than a D44 (once you get rid of the big drums). So I see no real issue with using them in the back. A front 60 ... is just short of 600 lbs. That's a lot of weight for the control arms to locate, considering the "frame" that the arms are attached to.


Is it do-able? Sure is. It it worth it? My vote is says "no"


The truk is still worth the money, regardless. Some F250s did get a D60 (Reverse Spiral / High Pinion) that is worth a small fortune to the right people. If he was willing to split it up ... he could definitely make money off the truck. Matching 60s ... T18 trans (with adapters can go into other vehicles) ... semi decent body panels. The divorced mount 205 is a greay area in terms of desirabilty.


If it's a HP 44 (instead of a HP60)... it's worth keeping the axles for personal use. But that would depend on the price that the seller is willing to come down to.



Joe

caged

all ford 4x4's from 78-79 were high pinion flat top, so that alone is very desirable.
this one in particular has the d44 HD high pinion with flat top knuckles.
the 44hd has 3 inch axle tubes that are 1/4 inch thick, and are a bit wider than full size f150 d44's. but, they do only have 297 u-joints, but are upgradable to the 760 joints. plenty strong when using alloy shafts to run 36-38 inch tires.
jeffs bronco graveyard has killer prices on shafts, joints and lockers for the front 44's.
the rear 60 is very large, but you can shave quite a bit off the bottom of that pumpkin to gain ground clearance.

around here, at least, the 78-79 bronco axles are getting very hard to find.
and honestly, if i didn't find the set i bought, i would have bought these exact same f250 axles to put under my rig.
the only problem i am having right now, is the bronco axles have cast in radius arm wedges that are not removable, so i have to build a custom set of radius mount long arms to bolt up to my rig.
this sux for me, as i just had custom "clayton" long arms made and installed on my xj just last fall.
but the f250 had leaf springs, so that makes these axles just a little more desirable for jeeps.

the only years you want ford axles from were 78-79 as they all were high pinion with ball joints. 80 and up were the twin traction beam "split" axles.
and 77 down broncos were narrow axles with 260 joints and f150 before 78 were king pin low pinion.

EndlessMtnFab

Check Mr. N's D44 page ... almost no Fords were flat top. (there are 1 or 2 Super Cab exceptions, according to that site). So, for all practical purposes, Chevy & Jeep used the flat top D44s.


760 is a 297. Not much stronger .. just a different forging process. (Spicer's own words, not mine). Some people are reporting a few % points stronger in testing ... but not an upgrade like you are suggesting.



So do our sponsors here on CF.




Think you might wanna check that Mr N site again. The HP axles go back MUCH further than 1979. Seen and worked on enough of them to know. And I don't consider that cast in wedge "desirable"



The 77 down broncos were indeed narrower. But they were making the full width pickup that you can easily use. And like I said a few lines up ... the pre 78 Dana 44 Ford fronts were High Pininon. I have yet to see a king pinion D44 .... so I cannot say if they exist or not. However ... you make it sound like the kingpin is a bad thing. I'd rather have that, than a balljoint setup.



Didn't want to pick apart what you were saying ....... but there were enough things that needed clarification.



Joe

caged

show me a 78 or 79 d44 that isn't flat top.

760 is an upgrade for the 297, that's why all rubicons had them factory to use with lockers.

you're right, the hp goes back further, but with only 260 joints and closed knuckle or open knuckle king pin. and drum brakes.

fords kingpin axles had drum brakes and (most) had 260 joints.

where did i say the cast in wedges were desirable. i merely said the f250 d44HD with the cast spring perch was a better choice, as it's only cast into the pumpkin, and not in the tube, as with the cast in wedges.


sorry bud, i've done my research.

whowey

Haven't had my hands on one in a LONG time... so you are probably correct.

I also forgot to add.. there is a better than average chance it has an NP-203 full-time transfer case. Not really anything wrong with it. But just not much resale in it...

bigbadxj

If I had the money and I was offered it for $1000-$1200 I would buy it all day. Those axles are some of the best and even if you do not want them you could make $1200 out of them (if you get a sucker) I have sold a set of front and rear 60's for $1000. I'm not saying that you can defiantly get that out of them but you may, if you do not use them. I would use them but i would be a trail only rig and I would go bigger than 35" on it.

EndlessMtnFab

No sweat ... I'll take a picture in the morning of a scrap 79 housing. However, it does appear that the leaf spring 250s did have some form of a flat top. So I'm willing to admit I err'ed (sp?) on the F250 flat tops.

That's because Spicer discontinued the 297 ....


LOL




So every D60 front has drums? Didn't you just say in the last quote they only came with 260 ? Now "most" had them?


You said it right here ....



Some of the F250s were still coil too ... so you'd be getting the cast perch in those axles.




Could've fooled me.


*edit* I just took some time to look for Kingpin D44s .... Looks like you have to go back to 1971/72 to find some Open Knuckle Kingpin Dana 44s. I wasn't sure they existed ... but now I have part numbers & pictures. As I said before ... kingpin = good. Esp if you find an open knuckle kingpin. Also seeing pictures of 297 Joints in a D44 (fullsize) with 297 joints ... all the way back to 1974.



Joe

Mike1998XJ

You guys are all impressing me with your knowledge.
Next week my Son is going to go back to the truck with a camera. I will have him take several pics of both axels, the transfer case, the tranny... basically I'll have him take many pictures of everything under the truck.
I took a picture of the door sticker that had info about the drivetrain, but it came out blurry.

You are all good guys and it's enjoyable to see someone with a lot of knowledge talk about the old stuff that's still out there, but harder to find as time goes on.
All information that stirs thought and keeps the past alive is nice to hear.
Thanks guys... This will be interesting!
Mike

caged

yeah, ok mang.
now let's get this dudes thread back on topic.

Mike1998XJ

My Son finally e-mailed me pics of the front axel of the Red Truck in the original post.
Any opinions?

Thanks
Mike